CW Bullet, carved or just squished?

[Kiros32]

Sorry for the crappy pictures, they were taken with my cell phone. I was just curious what you guys thought of this. This has definitely been fired, but I have never seen a bullet like this. It looks to me like a rim has been carved around the top. I also may have hit something square and pushed the front in to cause that, but that's unlikely.

What do you guys think? Carved?

 

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[Kiros32]

I will guess.....neither.

I have one similar and will post a pic if needed, but I carried that spent to several 'experts' until one old fella in his 70's at the time told me what I had found.

I thought I had a rare minnie but what I was told was.... "That was the last shot fired by that soldier that day."

You see if you get too excited in the heat of battle many things can happen, one of the worst is to fail to remove your ramrod before you pull the trigger. The conical impression on the top tells me you and I have the same thing, a spent that sent a r/r flying into battle.

In my opinion a real keeper and conversation piece, I have a half a five gallon bucket of spents I picked up near
Atlanta over 10 yrs or so and I only found that one. Hope this helps.

Wow, never thought of that but it makes sense. Hope that is what I have!!! Thanks for your help.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I don't think it's from firing without removing the ram rod--however, it IS caused by the ram rod.  I have found many bullets like that in an area where the gun barrels were quite dirty (cleaner bullets did little to stop this).  Basically, there was some resistance because of crud in the barrel, and when they pushed the bullet down into the gun with the ram rod the soft lead was marked by the impression of the tip of the ram rod.  Take a look at several ram rods, with their cone-shaped tips, and you'll see what I mean.

I can post a photo of a batch of about 120 examples--all from the same site--if needed.


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Kiros32]

Thanks BB, I think that's more likely than a fired ramrod, but same concept.

 

[civilman1]

Hey Jared....I agree with BB,this thing was just ramrodded to death,could have been a first time "musketeer" or a worn rod....you never can tell.There's alot of factor's but I really think Clem just got carried away.Here's one that was fired and look's to be a little of an over kill,most of my William's Cleaner's are the same way for some reason or the other.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dunno what happened here but after a few shots with blackpowder, it can become very hard to load. I know a primitive hunter that had to ram his ramrod against a tree in an attempt to fully seat the bullet.

 

[Kansasippi]

I apologize for creating any conflict or controversy in this forum, I will refrain from making any further comments that may viewed as being misleading at this website.
I'm sure I am wrong about this bullet and I assure every one I meant no harm.

 

[Kiros32]

I apologize for creating any conflict or controversy in this forum, I will refrain from making any further comments that may viewed as being misleading at this website.
I'm sure I am wrong about this bullet and I assure every one I meant no harm.

Kansas,

You haven't started an ounce of controversy, don't apologize for anything. That is what this part of the forum is for, to offer your educated opinion to determine what each item is. The fact is there is no way of knowing whether this was a fired ramod bullet, or just overkill on the ramroding. Both theories are neither correct nor incorrect in this sense.

I agree that this indentation was caused by a ramrod. Thank you for the education, I actually hadn't thought of a ramrod indentation until you offered your opinon.

 

[tymcmurray]

I think ramrodded too.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Kansas,

You haven't started an ounce of controversy, don't apologize for anything. That is what this part of the forum is for, to offer your educated opinion to determine what each item is. The fact is there is no way of knowing whether this was a fired ramod bullet, or just overkill on the ramroding. Both theories are neither correct nor incorrect in this sense.

agreed.

 

[dnewbury2]

The caliber of that bullet looks to be small, about .44 caliber, from a cap and ball revolver. I found one almost identical to it in the cavalry camp at Gravelly Springs, Alabama. If it is a pistol bullet the indentation is caused by the ram of the loading lever.

 

[DaChief]

It is the obvious result of the battle field disease commonly referred to as "Rammious puckerous factorous" which is caused by the sight of opposing forces baring down on your Arse while you are in the process of reloading.

 

[Monty]

Kansasippi, no apology necessary. Many of us just make a guess and sometimes we get it right. I think I am right about 0.49% of the time, but I'm gonna keep guessing. That's what makes it fun. M nty

 

[Goldiver]

Hey Jared....I agree with BB,this thing was just ramrodded to death,could have been a first time "musketeer" or a worn rod....you never can tell.There's alot of factor's but I really think Clem just got carried away.Here's one that was fired and look's to be a little of an over kill,most of my William's Cleaner's are the same way for some reason or the other.

That makes sense with the Williams Cleaners, I believe they had a zinc base, so they were probably harder to seat into the barrel, especially a dirty barrel. I have never seated or fired a Williams Cleaner, but it makes sense to me.

Also with so many caliber variations during that time I suppose you could get your hands on some projectiles that didn't fit your gun barrel properly and were too tight thus hard to seat. Since you should not fire the gun unless the bullet is fully seated you would have no choice but to force it in a battle senario otherwise if you had time you could try to pull it out too if you wanted.

Steve

 

[johnreb1980]

I agree that the bullet in question was probable rammed to hard,but marks like this could also be from loading more than one bullet into the barrel and fired, as that happened fairly often during the heat of the battle.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I agree that the bullet in question was probable rammed to hard,but marks like this could also be from loading more than one bullet into the barrel and fired, as that happened fairly often during the heat of the battle.

You're right! That is another possibility. Ramrod squished is most probable. More than one bullet loaded is less likely, but depending on the type of site (camp, skirmish, etc.) that you found it on--perhaps just as likely...and fired ramrod the least likely, but possible.

Nice work, johnreb.


-Buckles

 

[Iron Patch]

I can actually supply a pretty good answer for this and from a very good source. (Tom Stelma) A friend had a similar bullet and I went looking for an answer.

"It is an Enfield bullet fired with a ramrod on top of it which made the impression on the nose of the bullet. The soldier was in a excited state firing as fast as he could.

I think this bullet was probably made in one of the Southern arsenals as it has a conical cavity and not a plug cavity in my humble opinion."


Here is another reply..

"There are 3 reasons for a bullet to be shaped in the nose like this one. 1st is it was fired with a ramrod as you and Richard have mentioned. Second is it was rammed hard to begin with, either in the excitement or to secure a really good seal or because the barrel was somewhat dirty and there was resistance going down the muzzle. Third is the case of a bullet being loaded atop another in the barrel and picking up the cavity in the one on top of it. That does not appear to be the case here but has been known to happen due mostly to misfires.

There has been some speculation that a bullet fired with the ramrod still in the barrel shows faint signs of lead squeezing up and around the edges of what would have been the outside of the ramrod head and the barrel. I don't know anyone crazy enough to test this theory so it remains open to debate.

Wildman Dent Meyers can tell anyone interested enough of the vicious kick associated with firing a fouled musket with the ramrod still in the barrel. The slug he fired was not found after he got back up on his feet from being blown over backwards ;-)

So, in my humble opinion, it was either fired with a ramrod still in the barrel or the force applied in ramming the slug home was excessive for some reason. Clearly it was fired though. I should think that excessive ramrod force was more common an occurence than ramrod firing, but that is only my speculation and either way, it makes for a neat find."

 

[izzitcat]

Maybe it had been shot and missed it's target and hit something else like a rock or something. Possible ricochet? Just guesses. However smart money is on ramrod.


izzitcat

 

[Kiros32]

Wow, thanks for the answers and the research guys. This particular bullet was found at the site of the Battle of Kearneysville, a small but successful skirmish/battle of late August 1864 during the Shenandoah Campaign. Torbert waited at the top of the hill with regiments from the 1st and 3rd cavalry, and three artillery batteries. Rodes division was marching from Leetown on their way to Sharpsburg, all infantry with a few sharpshooter battalions. They were engaged at Kearneysville.

It sounds like a candidate for scared and panicked confederate soldiers, and a good possibility for a ramrod-squished Enfield (Southern).

Thanks again guys.