Copper Sheathing

[FriscoT06]

Hi all,

I was in Corolla again last week, and I found what I think may be some ship's copper hull sheathing. It also appears to have two square nail holes in it. I was just wondering what you all think. From what I've read, copper sheathing was first brought to the British Royal Navy for experimenting in 1761, and was then widely outfitted on their fleet during the American Revolution. In 1832, the copper sheathing on ships began using tin and zinc added to the sheathing. If this is sheathing, do you all know how to tell if it's pre or post 1832 composition? All comments are appreciated!

 

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[smokeythecat]

I think it's more than likely ships' sheathing. I suppose only a scanning electron microscope would give you the metallic composition, but it's an expensive test.

 

[FriscoT06]

Yeah, I might buy one if I win the lottery, lol. I was trying to see if I could go by the corrosion? Zinc is usually white when I see it oxidize, and I heard tin just gets darker. I don't think I see those, and I do see the green verdigris for copper though, which points to a good sign that it's the older composition of pure copper. -Any other thoughts?

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Well I am no expert on copper sheathing but one thing I noticed is the square nail holes. most sheathing I have found was secured with small copper round nails. The round nails tended to hold better and not back out with the swelling and shrinking of the wood. The last pic in the link shows round sheathing nails from the Victory.
The next thing I noticed is the spacing between the nail holes seams to be too far apart for hull sheathing. note the first pic in the link you can see that the spacing is quite tight.
I do believe that this piece is either from a ship, perhaps from on the deck or from inside the ship. It could also be from on an old wharf.

HMS Victory Copper Sheathing

Sorry I couldn't be more help,
ZDD

 

[FriscoT06]

Thank you for the information! One thing I noticed from the article you posted is that it said the sheets taken from Victory were from refitting material from the late 1800's- Is it possible that they used square nails before then, switching to round nails later? I remember seeing square nail holes in pics from other members in another thread on copper sheathing from the Frederick Douglas Beach, Fl area- http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/s...ed-copper-sheathing-treasure-coast-beach.html -In regards to the nail spacing, the piece pictured in your article seems much bigger than my 4in piece, although no size reference was used in their pic- Could it still be possible that in mine and theirs it is still about 1.5 inch spacing? The article says most sheets were 4ft by 14in, but that doesn't fit the dimensions of the one they have pictured.

Thank you for contributing to this discussion, that article was very informative and I enjoyed reading it! Also to increase my knowledge, where else on ships was copper sheathing material used?

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Square nails could very well have been used right up to the 1900s if a ship yard didn't have round ones on hand but it was general practice to use round or wire made nails. I think the only way to get a good date from your copper is if it had a visible makers stamp on it.
Copper could have been used on a ship for many purposes It was used on some capstans as to cap the top part off. it could have also been used on the rails to prevent wear from ropes as in this pic, this one is brass but copper was also used as it was much cheaper. On docks it has been used to cap of the tops of the pilings.
I know it not much help but it is all I got. I say go out and get more of it an maybe you might find out where it came from.
ZDD

 

[FriscoT06]

Very cool info- I did not know that about the capstans/railings, thanks! I think I shall go get some more soon, I would love to put a name to one of these ships out here!

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Very cool info- I did not know that about the capstans/railings, thanks! I think I shall go get some more soon, I would love to put a name to one of these ships out here!

Go get-em Frisco, North Carolina has lots of wrecks worth going for. I hope you find what you are seeking.
ZDD

 

[stevemc]

You mentioned British ships and copper sheathing, they moved from copper to lead for a while, they also used square nails. Lead didnt corrode as fast, and didnt have the galvanic reaction with the bronze nails, like the copper sheathing and bronze nails did. If british military/warships, they would have a broad arrow mark on each metal part.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Here is a great reference for ship's fasteners. Pg. 174 talks about sheathing nails.

Ships' Fastenings: From Sewn Boat To Steamship - Mike McCarthy - Google Books

Here are a pic of some sheathing nails from my collection, they are off the wreck of the Humbolt, built in 1851 and wrecked in 1853. The nails have a square tip but a round shank, but as we have said not all were round shank.
ZDD

 

[FriscoT06]

Steve and ZDD, thanks so much for the info, cool stuff to know! ZDD- I liked the article you just posted! Most of my knowledge has only come from this wiki article I found- very nice read too- Copper sheathing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Steve- my piece is very small, so it might be missing it (if it's British), but it would be awesome to find a larger section of sheathing with the broad arrow king's mark you mentioned, I like having maker's marks on things, it makes for more fun in identifying. Let me know if y'all have any other cool bits of know-how, Thanks!

 

[captbilly]

These are bronze fasteners for copper hull sheating. French Warship 1782.

 

[FriscoT06]

Great examples! The framed one looks nice, and I love that underwater shot. Thanks!

 

[SADS 669]

Great examples! The framed one looks nice, and I love that underwater shot. Thanks!

I seam to remember from my trip to HMS Victory in Portsmouth all those years ago that it had metal over the rudder, that would certainly need through bolts or the olden day equivalent to hold it on, just a guess though