✅ SOLVED Copper Fragment With American Eagle

[jliller]

This fragment is about 1" tall and 1 1/2" wide. It is fairly flat, aside from some uneven bending from wear and other damage. It has a left-facing eagle with shield, arrows, and olive branch (a variation on the Great Seal of the US). There are stars above the eagle - 9 on the fragment but based on the way they arc I would estimate 14 stars in all if the piece were complete. Not sure if that might be a reference to Vermont (14th state)? There is no backing or attachment on the piece; the back is a recessed version of the front (so a single sheet of copper stamped into the design).

 

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[duggap]

There is a chance you have part of a powder flask.

 

[confederate83]

I cannot find any us issued flasks that match that eagle pattern I swear I have seen it before though

 

[mudd]

looks like part of a drum to me

 

[confederate83]

Ahh now that may be it I will look for an example

 

[confederate83]

Same eagle as found on period drums but its way to small

 

[confederate83]

Ok how bout this what if its a matchstick case that would explain the small size

 

[confederate83]

Wont load pic

 

[confederate83]

Here is a link http://www.virginiarelics.com/pc5220.htm

 

[BuckleBoy]

The bottom lip of it is consistent with powder flask manufacture. I feel almost positive that's what you have. Small size is due to the fact that it's a pistol flask not a musket flask. Find someone who has the Ray Rilling book (perhaps Tnet member Kuger?), and have them see if this design appears there. That book is expensive, and I'm sad to say I don't own it. Please post a photo of the back side. The design "pushed" into the brass to make it raised on the front side would seal the deal. Again, the bottom lip of it looks unmistakably like powder flask construction.

-Buck

 

[confederate83]

Hmm i think its way to small even for a pistol flask just my opinion

 

[BuckleBoy]

Well, that is a fragment of an item that was clearly bigger, if complete. But what do I know.

Is this one too big?



-Buck

 

[confederate83]

I see no need for you to be offended we are both working for the same goal the fact is this item gives up few clues and could belong to anything until we find that exact pattern that size we dont know for sure i meant no disrespect

 

[HomeGuardDan]

to throw my opinion out there - I would also say a powder flask shard. Keep in mind just because you don't see it out there does not mean it does not exist. There were more small manufacturers than large - their items are far less documented. The only thing that throws me is the lack of the correct curvature, but then again, it is a small shard.

 

[confederate83]

An associate of mine is consulting mike o'donnell on this so hopefully he can offer some insight

 

[jliller]

Front and back photos of the eagle piece and also another piece found close that is likely a fragment from the same original object (same pattern on the bottom). The second piece appears to be some kind of end piece although it is bend back on itself which makes it a little hard to identify.



Hope these help with the mystery. The powder flask seems quite reasonable and it would be great of we can narrow down the time period more than just 19th century. Thanks for the many replies!

 

[confederate83]

Is that hole in the second piece from corrosion or man made or can you tell

 

[CC Hunter]

The item here with an embossed eagle design, does not appear to be part of a powder flask. Over the years, having dug dozens of powder flask parts, along with a number of complete examples, has provided an opportunity to become rather familiar with various details. The Powder Flask Book by Ray Riling, is included within my reference library as well.

There are several details which immediately catch my eye on this piece, to preclude the unlikely association with being a portion of a stamped copper or brass powder flask. First, the material here appears much thinner in gauge to what is normally seen in rolled metal that was die stamped in manufacturing gun powder flasks. Second, the turned edge at the bottom appears to be on a straight plane, rather than a radius as would be noted at the base of a flask. Third, we may note that the eagle detail is very close to the bottom edge, whereas in most cases the design of any eagle on a flask would generally be higher in a more central position. Next, there appears to be a turned edge at the top, following the same horizontal plane as seen on the bottom of the piece. Additionally, the bottom edge shows a compound double turn, not seen in any flask. Finally, we may note the one smaller piece shown on the left side of the second photo, exhibits a semicircular tab at the end, with a small pin hole.

The points brought forward, clearly define to my eye, that the thin rolled metal embossed eagle piece posted herein, along with the unadorned smaller section, are parts of a side plate from a harmonica.


CC Hunter

 

[jliller]

I think you're right, CC Hunter! Now that you mention harmonicas, I coincidentally have another bent but mostly intact harmonica handy found on the same site. Like your photo and the copper eagle fragment I posted this harmonica has that same double ridge style along one edge.

I'm going to mark this solved, but if anyone knows a guide for dating harmonicas that would be great.

 

[DCMatt]

Harmoniflask?