Cook County Illinois Banned Metal Detecting in all Forest Preserves

[cyberborikua]

Cook County Forest Preserve District

The concerning language from Section 3-3-14 reads as follows:

"Section 3-3-14: INJURY OR DESTRUCTION TO FOREST PRESERVE PROPERTY. No unauthorized person shall in any Forest Preserve:

I. Use, possess or offer for use a mineral or metal detector, magnetometer, side scan sonar, other metal detecting device, or subbottom profiler on Forest Preserve District property nor shall any unauthorized person be allowed to excavate, remove, damage, alter or deface, or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface Forest Preserve District property in connection with or for the purpose of engaging in metal detecting activities. Any person violating any of the provisions of this Subsection shall be fined not less than seventy-five dollars ($75) or more than five hundred dollars ($500.00) for each offense."

I heard there is a legal team working an a permit system. For now just the mere possession of a metal detector in a Cook County forest preserve carries a fine.

 

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[Lowbatts]

I spent a lot of time out in those preserves over the years. Mostly the NW district. There are vast spreads of former town sites, homesites, early settlers homes, etc.. on those properties. Everything from old horse race tracks to scout camps long gone. I'd challenge anyone who thinks MD'ing is a problem to show when and where we represented a problem, on the whole as MD'ers. But in the last couple years a lot of unfilled holes started popping up not just in the woods but on the picnic greens as well.

Many of these holes were accompanied by the pull tab or screw cap sitting atop or next to them. It's a real shame we did not have either the physical presence or presence of mind to do a lot more self-policing in those areas when newbies or rogues were present.

Every detector sold should naturally have some industry-driven self-serving manual or booklet on how, where and when to dig. Same goes for dealer interaction with customers. The MD marketing gurus who do not see their market shrinking to totlot and backyard hunting should understand we won't have any use for their flagship models before long.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Lowbatts, open or poorly filled holes, non-packed-out litter, etc... is the knee-jerk reaction, most of the time, when someone posts of a no-detecting rule. Ie.: "Someone must have left holes, so a bureaucrat implemented this law", etc....

But think of it: If this were true, then wouldn't the md'r that did that .... ALREADY have been guilty of several law violations? There certainly would already have been rules against littering, right? And there certainly already would have been rules about "defacement" and "vandalism" type clauses, right? (which .... if the md'r covered things up w/o a trace, by the way, then he would not have been guilty of).

So I suggest to you that while there might have been holes, or tabs on top of the ground, etc... that that is not the reason for the rules that come out. OH SURE, if you ask the bureaucrats or rangers: "why?", that will probably be their forthcoming answer. But no, the reason someone gets it in their mind, to make a rule, is that I betcha people went in there, in years past, asking "can I metal detect?" The bureaucrats fielding such a question are left to envision the various pro's and con's of a "yes" vs. a "no". As they evaluate such a request, guess what's going to be the knee-jerk mental image in their mind? GEEKS WITH SHOVELS who leave holes and tabs on the ground (even if they've never seen or heard of a hole left open before). So guess what they do? They implement a rule to "address this pressing question".

So in that case, you can see that the cause of a lot of rules we have against us, is not holes, but is the skittish md'rs grovelling around desk-bound bureaucrats asking "can I?", where perhaps there was no specific dis-allowance before. Nor would anyone have given the matter thought before. (until the "pressing question" came across their desk, ..... that is).

I spent a lot of time out in those preserves over the years. Mostly the NW district. There are vast spreads of former town sites, homesites, early settlers homes, etc.. on those properties. Everything from old horse race tracks to scout camps long gone. I'd challenge anyone who thinks MD'ing is a problem to show when and where we represented a problem, on the whole as MD'ers. But in the last couple years a lot of unfilled holes started popping up not just in the woods but on the picnic greens as well.

Many of these holes were accompanied by the pull tab or screw cap sitting atop or next to them. It's a real shame we did not have either the physical presence or presence of mind to do a lot more self-policing in those areas when newbies or rogues were present.

Every detector sold should naturally have some industry-driven self-serving manual or booklet on how, where and when to dig. Same goes for dealer interaction with customers. The MD marketing gurus who do not see their market shrinking to totlot and backyard hunting should understand we won't have any use for their flagship models before long.

 

[cyberborikua]

I spent a lot of time out in those preserves over the years. Mostly the NW district. There are vast spreads of former town sites, homesites, early settlers homes, etc.. on those properties. Everything from old horse race tracks to scout camps long gone. I'd challenge anyone who thinks MD'ing is a problem to show when and where we represented a problem, on the whole as MD'ers. But in the last couple years a lot of unfilled holes started popping up not just in the woods but on the picnic greens as well.

Many of these holes were accompanied by the pull tab or screw cap sitting atop or next to them. It's a real shame we did not have either the physical presence or presence of mind to do a lot more self-policing in those areas when newbies or rogues were present.

Every detector sold should naturally have some industry-driven self-serving manual or booklet on how, where and when to dig. Same goes for dealer interaction with customers. The MD marketing gurus who do not see their market shrinking to totlot and backyard hunting should understand we won't have any use for their flagship models before long.

I agree and we are on the same page. MD manufacturers and or distributors should include our code of ethics and visuals on how to detect, including leaving premises as found before the digging. They should also warn the user that an MD is not a toy, but a sophisticated instrument to recover metals from the ground. MDing represents serious business and we shall know that before even turning on the machine. There are regulations and enforcing agents making sure we are not violating laws. To the common person, we are just having fun digging for spare change, but the authorities think differently. Are you operating legally? How come there are so many of you now and MDs are proliferating? Why so many success stories posted online and in the media about tremendous discoveries and consistent profit? How many of the visitors we have here and in other forums are law enforcing agents, concerned citizens, or even politicians inquiring about the legality of our practices? On the other side of the coin, why is nobody concerned about why there is so much trash in the woods? Trash is everywhere you dig and look. That's a real problem to the environment and the wildlife. If MDing is banned because of uncovered holes, then why not banning admission to the general public that is trashing our preserves? Or to the fishermen that are dumping beer cans and other garbage to the ponds; or leaving behind weights and hooks that can harm animals and people alike? I have seen all of that and can take hundreds of pictures to show the real culprits. There got to be a stronger reason to completey ban a hobby, but we just not know it.

 

[Diggit]

For now just the mere possession of a metal detector in a Cook County forest preserve carries a fine.

You can thank TV shows depicting fat loudmouthed washed up wrestlers using excavation equipment and destroying property for that one. And it will only get worse for us.

 

[AndrewFlemming]

I want information on excavation works that have been conducted in Nashville.

 

[Lowbatts]

Tom, right on again, a lot of newbies do not seek out other md'ers for the ins and outs but really do think they are the first one in their locale to get the idea of recovering all those mem cents for themselves. And in their race to the coinstar machine have some otherwise seemingly innocent question framed in their minds. Can I do this? I find that attitude to be almost antithetical to the American ideal of an independent mindset.

But yes, a lot of the growing and ever-burgeoning wildlife-worship crowd has come into play here as well. The new CCFP head was in attendance for their Earth Day worship ceremonies at one FP that I've worked for over 20 years. About a week before that a couple of their environmental managers were at the place and another md'er and I were talking to them. They both looked at us like we asked them if they wanted to go to hell when asked if they were attending that ceremony. Seemed mighty apparent they preferred our company to the tie-dye psycho squads who work through life with a "take only memories, leave only footprints, and ONLY on the designated trail" mindsets.

Yes, I have been called out by them at the preserves as they pointed at everything from rodent holes to groundhog holes and accused me of doing that "damage". You see, they know nature wouldn't that because it's not like that in the Disney movies.

And there are self-appointed "stewards" also operating throughout the FP's over the last few years that have gained semi-official status, complete with tags from the FP offices that say so. These are real-life Gladys Kravitz wannabes that would call out the FP LEO's on anything off the trail that did not fit their mindset of accepted practices of nature's mavens, rather than usurpers. Now if you actually engaged these people in dialog they wound up not having a problem with your presence or actions by and large. But it was some of these and the other nimrods who did raise opposition to our presence, despite our having been at this longer and having more to do with cleaning the preserves than they ever will.

It really is further evidence of a spreading social disorder in this country where too many people cannot abide anyone else doing something that does not fit their idea of what is and is not morally acceptable.

As for it the being the result of Rick Savage, I love that guy. I can hear the screams of the "annointed ones" at every airing of that show. It is so "in your face" to the mindset I hold contempt for that I only wish we had 9 or 10 more shows like it.

As for the litany of points you made, Cyber-B, we were technically in violation of the ordinances every time we stepped off the trail and dug a hole already, without regard to whether or not we filled it in. As I've stated before, I've done this enough times in the presence of CCFP LEO's to know they were very accommodating to us because they knew we could assist them in finding things in the places off the trails they didn't have to go looking for, by the very nature of our activity.

This year there will be more mushroom harvesting, berry and herb gathering throughout the FP's, also technically illegal and those same FP LEO's who now have to admonish and prohibit us will stand down for the most part until the screamers go after those people as well.

These newer and narrower uses for the FP's go DIRECTLY in opposition to the original intent of the FP's, as they do in the case of pretty much all state and national parks. Yes you might not know that if you didn't read some of the original literature telling people to bring their families, their tents and canoes, their fishing poles and guns, hatchets and saws. Build a campsite, gather hickory nuts or berries, catch some food, cut some firewood, etc...

 

[cyberborikua]

Lowbatts, you are right about violating ordinances already established. However, everytime I came across with FP officers, I asked the question whether it was ok to MD in the FP. The answer was always, yes as long as you cover your plugs. I also agree that some fanatics of wildlife preservation seem blind to the real issue of the woods being used as dump sites. Trash is everywhere on the surface and buried, and nobody reacts to that. Well, perhaps they see dumping as something we do naturally because we all produce trash. But seeing someone swinging an MD and making a few holes is a big deal to some because it is a practice not commonly seen. I can testify to the original purpose of opening the woods to the public. I have found artifacts that prove so. But the rules change as we speak and more and more restrictions to the freedom we enjoyed will not stop.

 

[cyberborikua]

You can thank TV shows depicting fat loudmouthed washed up wrestlers using excavation equipment and destroying property for that one. And it will only get worse for us.

I think that we can still differentiate a reality show from fantasy. American Diggers is just an entertaining parody of what we do, but nothing else. Like wrestling, the show is fake.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"The answer was always, yes as long as you cover your plugs."

cyberborikua, this "yes" only means you didn't ask enough of them, with the right combination of buzzwords. Did you be sure to mention "dig"? And "treasure"? and "liability"? and "cultural heritage"? and "holes"? (that you will be sure to fill, of course).

There's a story of a person in San Francisco, who took it upon himself to walk into the park's dept. headquarters, and ask "can I metal detect in SF city parks?". (newbies, bless their little hearts). The desk clerk heed and hawed and didn't know how to answer this (apparently a question they hadn't encountered before). They eventually told them "sure, go ahead" (as I guess they saw no prohibitions in city verbage). The proud md'r left city hall, and .... eventually told a few others of us, who hunt SF city parks. The question eventually occurred to us though, as to WHO it was (the actual name of the person), in case someone ever accosted us, in the future. So we asked the guy "who told you this?". But he had failed to get the persons name, when he had been in there. So he went BACK to the parks dept office, a few weeks later, to find out who it was he had spoken to. This time however, there was a different person sitting at the desk. As the md'r tried to describe the person, the day, the time, etc... the present clerk was having a hard time matching a name to the story. So he just asked the md'r: "what was it, that you wanted to know?". So the md'r asked the same question again: "can we metal detect in SF city parks?". The current clerk answered "Sure! You just can't dig though".

See how that works? The first clerk never mentioned anything about digging. But the 2nd clerk, (even though "digging" had NEVER been mentioned by the md'r) made an automatic assumption of some sort of damage, or destruction, or whatever. So you see then, sometimes you can get JUST as many answers, depending on who you ask, and how you ask it, and their particular mood at that particular time.

Thus I do NOT leave it up to the whims of desk-bound clerks. If I am skittish or wonder, I LOOK IT UP FOR MYSELF. If I see no "specific" prohibitions, specifically saying "no metal detectors", then presto, I have my answer!

 

[Lowbatts]

Yep, right on Tom. Case after case when I have been unfamiliar with local policies, rules, ords or what have you my standard is to get my stuff out, approach a grounds keeper or officer and ask them where the good old stuff is located. Been doing exactly that for a couple decades. Engage them in conversation up front without asking and have the appearance of someone other than a tourist.

In another nearby county I have been told by others who have called to ask if they can MD on their county property that they have "always" been told no. I've hunted those places while the grounds people, county and district LEO's were present and they were nothing but helpful to the point of asking if I'd ever been over to this spot or that. Places where old campgrounds or events were held.

It's not a debate, a confrontation or even a query until you make it one. Why make it one?

 

[cyberborikua]

"The answer was always, yes as long as you cover your plugs."

cyberborikua, this "yes" only means you didn't ask enough of them, with the right combination of buzzwords. Did you be sure to mention "dig"? And "treasure"? and "liability"? and "cultural heritage"? and "holes"? (that you will be sure to fill, of course).

Oh no when I ask if I can MD to the rangers (not to forest employess or clerks), I let them know what I'm up to. That is why they warn me to cover my plugs and to keep my trash. But, I don't doubt if they may come with a regulation that you can MD, but not dig holes. It is also true that general forest and park regulations have language that would make our hobby illegal. Reason why I ask the question and let them know what my intent is. Thanks for looking.

 

[oz_il]

Received the e-mail posted below. I wonder what would happen if someone dared bring up a MD question?
========================
Greetings-

We hope you can join us at one of the 7 focus groups we invited you to last week. In addition to the focus groups, the Forest Preserve District of Cook County is hosting a Recreation Master Plan Public Meeting, which will provide information about the planning process. The public meeting is July 18, 2012 at 6:30PM at the Brookfield Zoo, click here to register. Help us promote the public meeting by sending out the attached email to your listserv, interested contacts and members. We appreciate your assistance and support in making this planning effort a success!

If you haven’t RSVP’d yet, please find a time below to join us at one of our upcoming focus groups. The Recreation Master Plan will provide the District with a blueprint for how to enhance existing recreation opportunities and identify new ones compatible with our mission. The District has over 68,000 acres, offering a wide variety of recreation opportunities including hiking, biking, fishing, birding, golfing, cross-country skiing and more. Each focus group will last 1 hour. We promise to be respectful of your time and start and finish on time. If you are unable to attend any of the scheduled sessions but would still like to learn more about the Recreation Master Plan and provide input, please contact me by email or phone (see contact information below).

Date	Time	Location	Address	RSVP
July 17	6:30PM	FPDCC General Headquarters	536 N. Harlem, River Forest	Register
July 18	8:00AM	Cook County Admin Building	69 W Washington, Chicago	Register
July 19	8:00AM	Crabtree Nature Center	3 Stover Road, Barrington	Register
July 19	8:00AM	Sagawau Environmental Center	12545 W. 111[SUP]th[/SUP] St., Lemont	Register
July 19	Noon	Sand Ridge Nature Center	15891 Paxton Ave., South Holland	Register
July 19	Noon	River Trail Nature Center	3120 Milwaukee Ave., Northbrook	Register
July 19	6:30PM	Brookfield Zoo	3300 Golf Road, Brookfield	Register

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,
Kindy

Kindy Kruller, LEED AP
Senior Planner
Forest Preserve District of Cook County
536 North Harlem Avenue
River Forest, IL 60305
[email protected]
www.fpdcc.com
Phone 708-771-1009
Fax 708-771-1360

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Oz, to answer your question, if you asked enough of these type folks, with the right combination of buzz-words, then you tell me, what do YOU think they would say?

You can ALWAYS find a "no", if you long enough and hard enough, and ask with the right words and implications, of enough bureaucrats. Even at the most innocuous sandbox in the entire USA, I bet I can find someone to tell me "no", given enough time and asking around, and putting contracts of "permission" for city lawyers to sign (afterall, you "can't be too careful" can you? )

Received the e-mail posted below. I wonder what would happen if someone dared bring up a MD question?
========================
Greetings-

We hope you can join us at one of the 7 focus groups we invited you to last week. In addition to the focus groups, the Forest Preserve District of Cook County is hosting a Recreation Master Plan Public Meeting, which will provide information about the planning process. The public meeting is July 18, 2012 at 6:30PM at the Brookfield Zoo, click here to register. Help us promote the public meeting by sending out the attached email to your listserv, interested contacts and members. We appreciate your assistance and support in making this planning effort a success!

If you haven’t RSVP’d yet, please find a time below to join us at one of our upcoming focus groups. The Recreation Master Plan will provide the District with a blueprint for how to enhance existing recreation opportunities and identify new ones compatible with our mission. The District has over 68,000 acres, offering a wide variety of recreation opportunities including hiking, biking, fishing, birding, golfing, cross-country skiing and more. Each focus group will last 1 hour. We promise to be respectful of your time and start and finish on time. If you are unable to attend any of the scheduled sessions but would still like to learn more about the Recreation Master Plan and provide input, please contact me by email or phone (see contact information below).

Date	Time	Location	Address	RSVP
July 17	6:30PM	FPDCC General Headquarters	536 N. Harlem, River Forest	Register
July 18	8:00AM	Cook County Admin Building	69 W Washington, Chicago	Register
July 19	8:00AM	Crabtree Nature Center	3 Stover Road, Barrington	Register
July 19	8:00AM	Sagawau Environmental Center	12545 W. 111[SUP]th[/SUP] St., Lemont	Register
July 19	Noon	Sand Ridge Nature Center	15891 Paxton Ave., South Holland	Register
July 19	Noon	River Trail Nature Center	3120 Milwaukee Ave., Northbrook	Register
July 19	6:30PM	Brookfield Zoo	3300 Golf Road, Brookfield	Register

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,
Kindy

Kindy Kruller, LEED AP
Senior Planner
Forest Preserve District of Cook County
536 North Harlem Avenue
River Forest, IL 60305
[email protected]
www.fpdcc.com
Phone 708-771-1009
Fax 708-771-1360

 

[oz_il]

CCFP has an online questionnaire. I mostly filled in metal detecting where appropriate (future/added activities). May not do any good but at least I got it mentioned.

QuestionPro Survey - Forest Preserve District of Cook County - Online

 

[cyberborikua]

Thank you for the link to the survey. I completed it and will post it in other forums as well. Anything that can help reinstate our hobby is good.