Confederate Shotgun : but which model?

[rammjäger]

Hello ,
I finally received this great CW relic ! - It was found at Brandy Station / Virginia.
On private property and aprox 1 Mile from the Battlefield itself. Just where the troops
are thought to have camped before the battle took place.
From this two barreled shotgun was found only the Lockplate's left side .
You can see the hammer remains in "cocked position".
I am really emotioned to have this great piece of history in my hands.
In Wikipedia I found all needed informations about this battle :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Brandy_Station

But I couldn't identify what model of shotgun this was. - Any idea ?
The corroded steal won't give me a clue. Besides, I will not try to clean it.
Instead I will keep it at its original found condition.
HH
Rammjäger

PS.: I could only find this link .Thats all !
http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/ConfCavC&S.htm
Perhaps it was just a normal shotgun brought from home ?

 

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[Tony in SC]

Cool item but why do you think it came from a shotgun? Tony

 

[rammjäger]

Cool item but why do you think it came from a shotgun? Tony

Hello Tony,
just look at the 3rd Pic on this link :
http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/ConfCavC&S.htm
I am no expert but the form of the plate is just the same !
Regards,

 

[stefen]

The fact that this relic was found approximately a mile from a CW battle field or encampment does not mean it can be attributed to the Civil war era.

As with any historical area in the south, there are many layers of relics, some of which may be attributed to the CW only if the item can be verified as such.

Being that you are going to leave the corroded relic in an as-is condition, there is a slim chance that it can be properly identified.

 

[dkw]

Cool item but why do you think it came from a shotgun? Tony

My guess, I would think double shotguns were a lot more common than left handed rifles.

 

[Peeber]

It seems I recall reading that the Confederates were known for their Shotgun cavalry charges. That is why Johnny Yuma of the old T.V. show carried his sawed off shotgun (showing my age). It is called a mule foot.

 

[l.cutler]

Yes it is the left hand lock from a double barrel percussion shotgun. Unless you find some markings there is no real way to tell any more about it.

 

[d2]

DKW, you said it befor I could. Rammjager, after cleaning it real good you may be able to find a mark or 2 on the inside of the lock plate and possibly on the outside of. It is old I know that for sure great find...d2

 

[Tony in SC]

Cool item but why do you think it came from a shotgun? Tony

Hello Tony,
just look at the 3rd Pic on this link :
http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/ConfCavC&S.htm
I am no expert but the form of the plate is just the same !
Regards,

I now see that it is a left hand hammer, so it probably was a shotgun. As far as The War Of Northern Agression, towards the end a lot of Southern boys and old men went off to fight with what ever they had. There were a lot of gunsmiths making guns before the war. There were two with a mile of my house. There's no way to tell if it was a Civil War weapon but it could have been. Tony

 

[rammjäger]

Hi,
according to the person who found it, this relic was found among many other CW relics.
What still remains as uncertain is if this shotgun belonged to a Gen. R.E. Lee's at this zone
stationed
Confederate Northern Virginia's Army or to J.E.B Stuarts's Cavalry Troops .....
The probability that this gun could habe been lost in this area before or after this date
is in my opinion less than 1 %.
Amazing is the fact that this Lockplate 's hammer remains still in "cocked position"
HH
Mike

 

[rammjäger]

It seems I recall reading that the Confederates were known for their Shotgun cavalry charges. That is why Johnny Yuma of the old T.V. show carried his sawed off shotgun (showing my age). It is called a mule foot.

Hi Peeber,
that was in the '60 my favorite TV serie as well

 

[Monty]

I don't see how cleaning it up would hurt the value and it may provide valuable insight as to the origin. They way it is you will never know. Monty

 

[rammjäger]

I don't dee how cleaning it up would hurt the value and it may provide valuable insight as to the origin. They way it is you will never know. Monty

Why ?
it is very unprobable to find any trace on the plate due to its advanced corroded state .
Did perhaps these cavalry shotguns have any special number or ID ?
As many civil shotguns were also used in combat , it is almost certain I wouldn't find
any mark or number on it anyway......
Therefore I have not decided for a cleaning yet....Hmmmmmm
Miguel

 

[lastleg]

Miguel: If you decide to save this artifact at a later date, how would
you go about cleaning it?

 

[rammjäger]

Miguel: If you decide to save this artifact at a later date, how would
you go about cleaning it?

I would rather leave it the way it is. I am convinced this item is an original CW
relic.
Old good Virginia ground is on it !
Thank you

 

[rammjäger]

I have found this link for historic CW Battlefield maps :
Brandy Station
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:1:./temp/~ammem_2LFJ::

Now I am very confused ,
because it seems to be that at this place where this relic was found,
along the Flat Run river towards Brandy Station
there were Union troops moving in North direction (Gregg)
Could this shotgun in fact be from the Federal Cavalry instead of
the CSA Cavalry?
Could someone help me with this dilemma ?

 

[Monty]

That gunpart sadly to say could just as well have come from a civilian hunter as a soldier. I don't think you will ever know. But it has sentimental value to you apparently and in your mind and imagination it could come from any source you wish it to. It is a nice trophy of bygone days regardless and one that most of us who love history would love to have in our collections. Monty

 

[rammjäger]

That gunpart sadly to say could just as well have come from a civilian hunter as a soldier. I don't think you will ever know. But it has sentimental value to you apparently and in your mind and imagination it could come from any source you wish it to. It is a nice trophy of bygone days regardless and one that most of us who love history would love to have in our collections. Monty

It could be. But the chances of a hunter loosing his shotgun are really very ,very low.
In the meantime I have been reading the battle's report:
...."Gral. Greggs's 2nd. Cavalry Division and Col. Alfred N. Duffié 's 3rd. Cavalry Division crossed the Rappahannock River
six Miles downstream to the southwest of Beverly's Ford at a crossing point named Kelly's Ford.
Col.Duffie's small 1,200 man division was delayed by two Confederate regiments in the vicinity of Stevensburg and
arrived on the (Battlefield ) Brandy Station too late to affect the action ".......
Therefore the hole area was occupied by skirmishers ......

 

[sasnz]

Interesting item you have there, A very nice find. I dont think you will ever be able to say one way or another wether the gun is CW or civilian, you made the comment that you thought it unlikely that a civilian would loose a shotgun, but I dont think it any more likely for a soldier in a spot were the battle wasnt. If the soldier were to be urgently repositioned he may forget many things but i dont think he would forget his weapon. never the less it is a great piece and the reality is we will more than likely never know but it sure is nice having an imigination on how such an item would be left behind. Great find.

Sasnz

 

[ivan salis]

now to say it is of the civil war era time frame *and found in a area where civil war fighting took place* and thus MIGHT BE civil war related is factually quite true -- however to say without a doubt its "civil war" is tough ---unless theres a emgraved name or other marking by a "known" soldier or other "hardcore" proof it would be hard to "prove" it 100% --- but as a great bit of history old "relic" type item with a very strong chance of being a CW battle related item --- I say great find.