CON MAN...

[MadJack_ME]

I don't post much in most forums unless I'm sure I can help or something to contribute. After all I have been after gold and gems off & on for 34 years.

Subject: Con-men.

Over the years I've been on the internet I have seen and been involved with, offers of mine-work as well as a few investment opportunities that seemed like a super deal. In 2003 I sold my home in Maine and moved my whole family to Alaska to mine for gold with a newly-formed LLC.
Long story short, the guy who started the whole gig never owned the claims he put up as his initial investment and more than $20,000 disappeared from the LLC's account. To top it off, this guy vanished into thin air! We, along with the help of some locals he screwed over, found him, got our money plus a little 'skin-interest'.

Offers to form an LLC (mining company), sell you a claim, or an offer to come to work at a mining operation should result in the same response as someone running at you with a gun!

Now don't get me wrong, not everybody is out to screw you but in the back of your mind, you should remain cautious.

Never give out YOUR phone number OR your resume' over the web, or without doing a background check on the person requesting the information. Your phone company has your SS number in a computer, so with your number hackers can get your records. Your resume' has way to much information to just hand out. A 'cover-letter' is all anyone should ask for if they are interested in interviewing you.

NEVER buy (or buy into) a mining claim without you first put your feet on the ground and physically touch each and every corner post. If the seller refuses or delays showing you legitimate paperwork and walking the claim in person, DO NOT GIVE HIM A DIME! I know several people who hold worthless paper-claims purchased over the internet.

Con-men have accomplices, and they will form an LLC making you believe no one knows the others when in fact they are all working to steal your money.

Times are tough. You worked for your savings. Some people today have no scruples, they don't care about you, your family, or your dog! They don't care that you sold your home and they now have your life savings. They will leave you in the freezing rain with no coat. It's not their problem, they have your money and you have no recourse!

PLEASE, learn from the mistakes of others like myself. It is much cheaper for you, and much easier on your family.

This has been a public service announcement.

( comments, short stories, advice, welcomed on this thread)

 

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[Hoser John]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAmen Jack,shams scam and flim flams galore as the depression deepens. These gold shows sure have proliferated the scammers as newbies all too eager to throw their cash away. Plenty of folks/clubs/groups that are non profit to assist in the learning process-respect MJ-John

 

[goldhog]

Well said.... and thanks for sharing.

 

[H&F909ORO]

What would you say about buying a claim on Ebay? After reading what you say I am now 100% skeptical about ever buying one form there. Thanks for sharing your info it really helps.

 

[G.I.B.]

Did you know that you can have the person that is seeking the investment sign a form for a credit report?

Then you have a local private investigator conduct a nice background check, including finances (with the signed consent form).

For a couple of hundred dollars, you could be saved thousands in the long run if he doesn't check out.

-or- you would know that the person is financially stable and has assets and actually owns what he said he owned.

If you do the background check yourself with one of the hundreds of do-it-yourself background check internet sites read the disclaimer. They all tell you the information is inaccurate and unverified. That is why you have to have a licensed individual handle the check for you. Someone who can access the restricted data.

 

[webatch]

LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP !!!

As others have said there are many folks out there who will take advantage of anyone not cautious enough to investigate before they jump in.

Even when the seller is honest & sincere you might just be buying yourself an EPA nightmare. Investigate ALL aspects of you intended purchase or new venture before you commit your assets. The old saying "The devil's in the details." is all too often accurate. Don't be shy about asking advice whenever you have any doubts or suspicions about anything. A bit of caution up front can save you a lot of headache down the road.

 

[goldenIrishman]

These are without a doubt words to live by. We all know that mining can be a hard life. It's a ton of work and there's no promise of a payday at the end of the week. It's sad that there are such people running around taking advantage of those that haven't yet learned the ropes that go with this lifestyle.

In my mind, the first thing that someone that's new to this "line of work" should do is learn how to research claims!!! Your county registrar (or the registrar of the county where any claim your interested in is located) is your best friend in finding out the legal status (spell that ownership) of any claim. With computers today, it's an easy thing to fake a set of papers saying that you own such and such a claim in such and such a county. Never accept any paperwork shown to you by someone selling a claim as being valid!!! Go to the county registrars office and ask to see the filing papers they have on record. Check all dates as well! If the date on the paperwork they show you is later than what the county records list, there should also be a "Quit Claim Deed" in the file. This is a very important piece of paperwork when a claim is sold! If the seller is not the one that filed the claim originally and doesn't have a quit claim deed in the paperwork then most likely it's a scam.

Also be sure as Jack said to get "boots on the ground". If the seller won't show you the land and insists that everything be done through e-mail, snail mail etc then don't just walk away, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!! Any one selling a claim should have no problem with showing you the claim in person as well as allowing you to do some sampling on your own. Don't go by the sellers assay report but have one done on any samples you can get. "Salting" a mine is an old trick that has been used for many years to improve the chances of selling a worthless piece of ground to the unsuspecting buyer. If you take your own samples for testing you're much better off. It's pretty hard as well as expensive to "Salt" an entire claim. And NEVER EVER pay a "sampling fee". If the seller is legit, then he should allow samples (within reason) to be taken. And assay reports that are decades old are worthless. There's a good chance that any materials that were of value have already been mined. NEVER EVER BUY A CLAIM SIGHT UNSEEN!!!!

Keep in mind that the old saying "If it seems too good to be true... It usually is." was come up with for a reason. You should be ready to walk (or run) away at the first red flag that pops up. There are some very slick con men out there and it's up to the buyer to protect their money. If you really want to get a claim of your own, DON'T RUSH!!! Take the time to learn the ropes as well as the ins and outs of the claiming process. These vary from state to state so be sure you get the information from the right places. California laws are a LOT different than the Arizona laws.

 

[Bejay]

Now that the gold rush interest has hit center stage there are numerous people out there trying to sell "a pig in a poke".
I located and filed a new claim a couple years ago and after I did that all the surrounding nearby creeks were on Ebay with claims for sale on them. The descriptions were correct: "Located in prime historical gold country"....etc etc etc. And the prices were around $5,000.00 for a 20 acre placer claim. They usually sold for less and the people buying them felt really good about getting such a good price. Only thing was the creeks held little gold of extremely small fly poop size. Of course these new claimants were discouraged after spending time on their newly acquired Ebay claims.

I highly advise avoiding the purchase of claims without due diligence. Boots on the ground by the buyer or a close friend will help greatly. Also knowing details such as permit requirements and regs can play an important role as well. Anyone with an LLC or Corporate structure will have some history....being registered with the state.

Historically speaking the desire to find gold has attracted many a poor soul and taken what little money the individuals had....such history might be worthy of consideration.

A person selling a claim ought to be willing to allow the buyer the opportunity to visit and even work the claim. Claim history is a valuable consideration as well.

Bejay

 

[GrizzlyGremlin]

Its amazing to me that people will buy claims and spend thousands with no guarantee that anything is theirs. IMO, never buy a claim.. Why would you when there are thousands of claim owners 100% willing to let you mine and develop values. Unless you LOVE research and jumping through hoops just mine open thats claimable and if you hit that 10 ounce corner then start thinking about claiming or buying mineral rights...
Until then spend time in the stream and not surfing the internet getting scammed.

 

[Goodyguy]

The internet is a pretty useful tool when it comes to preliminary background checks. A lot of info can be obtained just from knowing a name, approximate age, and phone number, even more info can be obtained if you know a present or previous address or a family members name. That way you know you are getting info on the correct John or Jane Doe.

Once you know a few details it's pretty simple to find past addresses and do background checks in that particular state and city or town to turn up other info.

Most court information is public record. To find it, go to your state's official government website or find the information you need at the National Center for State Courts. Make sure you search every state that the person you're checking has lived in.

After that, you might want to drill down to discover any felony and misdemeanor convictions on the county and city level. Keep an eye out for civil judgments, too, such as bankruptcies and court orders to pay debts.

Any time you are dealing with strangers and money is involved in any way shape or form it's best to do your due diligence or else in today's world you will be taking a big risk especially when it comes to "Gold"en opportunities.

Whatever you do don't give out any of your personal info until you are sure of whom you are dealing with and that means only if you have verified that they are who they say they are and you can confirm their integrity through trusted sources.

As the late president Ronald Reagan was fond of saying while dealing with the Russians: "Trust but Verify"

Go for the gold
GG~

 

[rodoconnor]

A family friend got fleeced by some con men in the 70's. They had some goldfarb gizmo that would extract gold from sea water. I guess it was very convincing ,because they nicked him for about $70K. And he really should have known better. Some people live and learn while others just live.

 

[GrayCloud]

Without calling names, There has also been con-men on the T-Net Forum, as some of us can testify too.
Always be leery of those that want front money for any adventure. Nuff Said.

 

[Armchair prospector]

It is usually those that post less than a handful of times that post selling items.

 

[Armchair prospector]

It is usually those that post less than a handful of times that post selling bogus items like mining claims.