Companies doing multi-frequecy.

[ryaan21]

Hey all. I have been thinking this winter and I was wondering why more companies do not do machines with at least 2 frequencies? I use a CZ70 Pro which is 5 and 15 khz and it is really a nice machine. Deep, accurate, stable on all sens levels. I do not know much about electronics so all of the things I listed may have nothing to do with them.

I just like that it is like a 1-2 punch with the high and low. It seems like more and more companies seem to like going with 14-15+ and the only time you see a lower frequency it is generally assigned to the lower end of the price range.

Is 15khz ideal for coinshooting? I don't know.

I would love to see a detector that punches deep like a CZ combined with something that does a little better in iron. That is my only complaint about CZ machines.

Is it expensive to make a machine with 2 frequencies? How come more companies do not do it?

 

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[Jason in Enid]

15Khz is more of a "jewelry" frequency. Most dedicated coin shooters use something like 3 - 5 Khz for copper/silver items.

 

[ryaan21]

15Khz is more of a "jewelry" frequency. Most dedicated coin shooters use something like 3 - 5 Khz for copper/silver items.

I had heard that before. Always made me wonder why Garrett released the AT Pro at 15 and then the Gold at 18. I think the AT Pro was amazing when it did hit a coin, the sound was one off the best I have ever heard. But I always wondered if I was missing something because of the high frequency but wasn't sure.

I wonder if it is cost prohibitive to make a multi-frequency coin shooter than can also be used for jewelry hunting or nugget shooting or something. Fisher seemed to have it perfected back with the old cz machines, but once again I dont know the science of it. But for as sought after as those machines are, it makes you wonder why someone hasnt improved upon it at all. I am just spitballing here, still 2 feet of snow on the ground here and I got a lot of time on my hands.

 

[el padron]

I had heard that before. Always made me wonder why Garrett released the AT Pro at 15 and then the Gold at 18. I think the AT Pro was amazing when it did hit a coin, the sound was one off the best I have ever heard. But I always wondered if I was missing something because of the high frequency but wasn't sure.

I wonder if it is cost prohibitive to make a multi-frequency coin shooter than can also be used for jewelry hunting or nugget shooting or something. Fisher seemed to have it perfected back with the old cz machines, but once again I dont know the science of it. But for as sought after as those machines are, it makes you wonder why someone hasnt improved upon it at all. I am just spitballing here, still 2 feet of snow on the ground here and I got a lot of time on my hands.

In the metal detecting industry, amongst its current leaders, its generally "prohibitive" to fabricate and develop any model that doesn't have at least a 500, no make that 600 % (actually it likely is more like 900 or 1000%) level of margin.
It costs very little to manufacture this stuff after development, and until very recently there has been very little of that.

 

[pepperj]

In the metal detecting industry, amongst its current leaders, its generally "prohibitive" to fabricate and develop any model that doesn't have at least a 500, no make that 600 % (actually it likely is more like 900 or 1000%) level of margin.
It costs very little to manufacture this stuff after development, and until very recently there has been very little of that.

It's simple low production = high price-high production= lower price. Then there are some that can't accept the fact that somebody is making money so they build one themselves and market it for a lower price.

 

[el padron]

It's simple low production = high price-high production= lower price. Then there are some that can't accept the fact that somebody is making money so they build one themselves and market it for a lower price.

I don't think production is that low. I think the metal detector industry has recently experienced a worldwide renaissance.
I also think people justify the price they pay after receiving their purchase by convincing themselves that production is low.
I think they have hundreds of millions of dollars in sales yearly

 

[pepperj]

I don't think production is that low. I think the metal detector industry has recently experienced a worldwide renaissance.
I also think people justify the price they pay after receiving their purchase by convincing themselves that production is low.
I think they have hundreds of millions of dollars in sales yearly

R&D isn't free they say, rather support a company that puts out a widget that I want than paying a monopoly for something because I have no choice.

 

[ryaan21]

I would like multi frequency like a CZ, iron disc like a tesoro and tones of a at pro. Make it waterproof to 10 feet, make a few different coils for it and I am guessing it would sell. I wish I had the know how and resources, I would give it a try if i did.

 

[JrMack]

I have quite a bit of experience in frequencys but not at the low end that detectors run in kHz, mine is in mhz. There has to be a certain amount of different between the two frequencys for them to be operated in a duel configuration. Also the phase or time of pulses have to be in sink. The length of the pulses and power determines the depth of a machine- longer pulses greater depth and slower response- shorter pulses less depth and quicker response. Its all about the programming and circuitry costs of the transmit and receive curcits of the units. Hope this helps a little!

 

[mrwilburino]

Right now the focus is on fast single frequency machines running at around 15khz and up. Not as much interest in multi frequeny at the moment. Still some good ones out there though, including the older but very effective CZ platform. They DO love pointy iron, however. Fisher is supposed to have a CZ replacement in the works, but that rumor has been around for quite a while now. ryaan21, check out etrac/CTX for comparable depth with less iron falsing.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

All good input. I believe the processes now possible with the internal programming have taken the place of what multi-frequency had been accomplishing.

When you step back and look at the differences in wavelengths over the portion of the spectrum we are dealing with you're talking one wave 60 miles long vs another 55 miles long - and we are only concerned with the first 12 inches of this wave.

Interesting to look at older Western & Eastern Treasure magazine ads and see how various manufacturers have alternately stated the benefits of one over the other depending on what they were selling at the time.

 

[ryaan21]

Yeah I have been wondering why the companies have been focusing on 15khz+. Not a huge deal but living where I live, there are no real relics from the civil war, the relics I am interested in are almost pure copper, and everyone I know is a coin hunter first.

Not a huge deal, but I wonder what market research urged manufacturers to pump out high frequency machines is all.

 

[Tedyoh]

Yeah I have been wondering why the companies have been focusing on 15khz+. Not a huge deal but living where I live, there are no real relics from the civil war, the relics I am interested in are almost pure copper, and everyone I know is a coin hunter first.

Not a huge deal, but I wonder what market research urged manufacturers to pump out high frequency machines is all.

My 2 cents on the higher frequency is the higher the frequency the smaller the target it will hit. With the Deus you can run it at 18 which is great for tiny thin gold, silver and hammered copper coins or jewelry. Deus is based in France where most of these coins exist (Europe). I hardly ever run 18 because tiny flecks of aluminum siding or copper scrap gives me a tone of a silver dime. The other day I dug a tiny aluminum rivet, from what I think was used to join a piece of roof gutter, at 7", thought it was a coin for sure. I guess in a European field that has 1000's of years of history you'd want this but here in the US I find it pretty much useless. (for my sites anyway)

 

[ryaan21]

That is what makes me wish more companies would at least put in a feature that allows changing of the frequency at a decent price point. One can dream

 

[JrMack]

That's exactly why I chose a minelab x-terra, the ability to change the freq by changing the coils. The high one is 18.75 khz really sings on aluminum, but great on lead, nickels, and gold. the mid is a 7.5 kHz and low is 3khz-great for silver.

 

[gollum]

ryaan21,

It has a lot more to do with science than build cost. When a coil and detector are designed, the coil has to match the inductance of the detector. That is the old and simple description. If the RF Crystal is built into the coil (a'la XTerra), a simple change of coil also changes frequency.

Look at Minelab's FBS (Full Band Spectrum) Technology:

MINELAB FBS

When you have 28 different frequencies, you have 28 crystals with different inductances that all have to be matched. Not easy by any means. Since they are all working at the same time, no manual switching is necessary. Really only possible since everything went digital.

Mike

 

[ryaan21]

ryaan21,

It has a lot more to do with science than build cost. When a coil and detector are designed, the coil has to match the inductance of the detector. That is the old and simple description. If the RF Crystal is built into the coil (a'la XTerra), a simple change of coil also changes frequency.

Look at Minelab's FBS (Full Band Spectrum) Technology:

MINELAB FBS

When you have 28 different frequencies, you have 28 crystals with different inductances that all have to be matched. Not easy by any means. Since they are all working at the same time, no manual switching is necessary. Really only possible since everything went digital.

Mike

This explains a lot of what I was not understanding. Thank you. Can ya tell I am going stir crazy? haha to much winter.

 

[gollum]

You need to move further South!

Mike

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Hello Ryaan21,

The White's V3i has three operating frequencies (2.5kHz, 7.5 KHz and 22.5 KHz), perhaps this detector will meet your need.

Regards,

 

[Escape]

Ryan, Dream no longer! Whites DFX. 2 frequencies. find on e bay. has a learning curve.