Colonial musket barrel .50 cal. Any info?

[XtreasureX]

I found this barrel a few years ago at an old colonial site in northern Mexico. It is bronze, seven inches long, and .50 caliber. There are markings on the end of what is the bottom of the barrel. There is another mark under the oxidized iron where the barrel was mounted that I can't really read . I haven't been able to find any info about this online. I was hoping someone would be able to ID it.

 

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[tamrock]

I'm not thinking it's a gun barrel, but something other than that. What's the smaller outside diameter end measure? Also does the bore go end to end?

 

[XtreasureX]

The smaller outside diameter is .50 inches. It does get a little larger (maybe .60) through the rest of the bore, end to end.

 

[tamrock]

It looks like someone mushroomed the end by pounding on it. I can't for sure what it is and maybe it is a gun barrel, but being bronze and the style of that little M has me stumped. I believe most flat sided gun barrels were made of 8 sided octagon stock and yours is 6 sided hex stock.

 

[XtreasureX]

It definitely looks like this barrel has been used/abused/modified. Is bronze not a common barrel material?

 

[tamrock]

It definitely looks like this barrel has been used/abused/modified. Is bronze not a common barrel material?

In the 18th century it was, but those were mostly round barrels I think. That M looks like a more modern style font then the fancy script style of the colonial times.

 

[XtreasureX]

The site where it was found was 18th century. Does the 4 that was stamped next to the M mean anything?

 

[mcl]

I know nothing about guns but researched this for a while to try and help. I now have a much wider gun vocabulary than I used to but sadly cannot be any real help. For what it's worth, when it came down to finding barrels that were:

1) Brass/Bronze
2) Not round
3) Short
4) Got thicker toward the muzzle on the outside but not necessarily inside
5) Old

The closest thing I found to yours was the following, which is clearly not the right answer but maybe you'll have a laugh over it:



Peace.

-mcl

 

[XtreasureX]

I know nothing about guns but researched this for a while to try and help. I now have a much wider gun vocabulary than I used to but sadly cannot be any real help. For what it's worth, when it came down to finding barrels that were:

1) Brass/Bronze
2) Not round
3) Short
4) Got thicker toward the muzzle on the outside but not necessarily inside
5) Old

The closest thing I found to yours was the following, which is clearly not the right answer but maybe you'll have a laugh over it:

View attachment 1412749

Peace.

-mcl[/QU
That is funny. This piece has been a lot of dead ends for me as well.

 

[mcl]

P.S. you mentioned a "4" next to the "M". If that was not a typo, just wanted to let you know it's definitely a "7", at least the stamp I am looking at. Also there appears to be an "I" before the "M". And that's it, I'm officially cashed out and will be of no further use here. Hopefully you can solve this one. Good luck.

-mcl

 

[BosnMate]

There were bronze pistol barrels. The taper to and then the swell on the end of the barrel is called "swamped." The breech end, (that would be where the stamped proof marks are) should have threads, and or a rusted out breech plug. It looks like there is an under lug that would have been used to pin the barrel to the stock, and a smashed front sight, lack of rear sight means nothing, many had only front sight or none at all. To me everything points to a pistol barrel. Except, if Tamrock is right and it has 6 sides, instead of 8, it's probably not gun related. Being .50 caliber for that age pistol also bothers me, usually pistols were a larger bore, but there sure as heck could be .50 caliber barrels. It's certainly been abused. If it is a gun barrel, odds are it would have been a flint lock. Is there a hole through the side of the barrel near the breech end? If no hole it doesn't rule out gun pistol barrel, because a cap lock gun could have the nipple for the cap built into the iron breech plug, my swag is very abused pistol barrel until proven otherwise.


The V is pointing to the under lug used for pinning the barrel to the stock. To me that's a dead give away that it's a pistol barrel.

 

[XtreasureX]

I reinspected the barrel and I want to clarify two things. The barrel is octagonal. The pics don't show that very well. If I get good sunlight today I can try to get better details. As far as the number next to the M mark, I am not sure if it's a seven. If you turn the barrel 180 degrees it looks a lot like a four. I'm doubting myself, however. I could be either.

 

[XtreasureX]

There is a hole through the breech end. It is on the right side of the gun based on the smashed sight.

 

[BosnMate]

From what you are saying, it's a bronze barrel for a flintlock pistol.

 

[BosnMate]

Here are some pictures of bronze barreled, flintlock pistols. I couldn't find any octagon barrels. The first picture shows somewhat your gun would have looked like. Kind of an overall look.




The above barrel isn't swamped, it's called a "cannon barrel pistol." Note the proof marks back near the breech.


And this pistol has an octagon to round barrel, and it's tapered and flares at the muzzle, so I'd say it's a swamped barrel. Sometimes you see the inside of the barrel is also flared a bit at the muzzle, like a blunder buss, which is an extreme flare, that is supposed to make the gun easier to load on a galloping horse, or a bouncing coach.

 

[XtreasureX]

Thanks to tamrock, mcl, BosnMate for the help. I'm grateful for the time you took to educate me. I'm still hopeful that I can figure out what the marks stand for.

 

[BosnMate]

The marks are "proof marks," and if you can make them out, there are books printed that are full of proof marks from different countries. Start looking up proof marks and see what you can find out.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

A pair of pistols sold on the IMA site that look like what you have, they were French Naval pistols dated 1807


Pair French 1807 Dated Naval Flintlock Pistols by Boutet ima-usa.com

 

[BosnMate]

A pair of pistols sold on the IMA site that look like what you have, they were French Naval pistols dated 1808
View attachment 1413083

Pair French 1807 Dated Naval Flintlock Pistols by Boutet ima-usa.com

Beautiful. I could not find an octagon barrel, you have nailed it for sure. I wonder what the caliber of those French guns are?
XtrerasureX, find a book on French proof marks, if you are still wanting to find out a bit more information.

 

[XtreasureX]

Firstly, I'm excited to see NOLA Kens photo. Really excited!! I did a bunch of searching last night with this new info. In this picture the M is very similar to the M on my barrel. The photos Ken sent I think are a dead match. I'm going to do a little more research on the marks and try to measure the caliber of my barrel on the inside past the swamped end.
Last night during the research I read that these flint lock pistols were often times converted to percussion cap ignition. I'll explain later why I think this may pertain to my barrel. I also believe the barrel was swamped down to the .50 caliber it is now.
I'm getting close to declaring this solved. Again, thanks to all involved. I hope you all enjoy this process as much as I do.