Colonial copper?

[bergie]

Any thoughts appreciated. Nothing visible on coin...note weight on scale

 

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[hollowpointred]

wow that one is really corroded. i might even entertain the idea of doing some light electrolysis on that one to see if i could id it if it were mine. it sure does look like a colonial copper coin. there is a good chance there could be some detail under some of that green crud. maybe someone around here knows of a kinder and gentler way of cleaning corrosion off of old copper. its a nice find even if you cant id it. i think its safe to say that its been the ground for at least 150 to 200 years! nice stuff!

 

[mech]

Nice Find! maybe some hot peroxide and a q-tip ??

The size is dead on for a colonial copper but I see the weight issue you point out..its lost roughly 25%

 

[AnOldPro]

Are you sure its not a "penny button" with the loop broke clean off? Doesn't seem corroded or worn enough to account for the lack of any detail on the face. Check the center of the other side carefully for traces of solder or a broke off shaft.

DC

 

[l.cutler]

I think I see enough on the reverse to say it is a colonial copper. In the second photo at 12 o'clock I believe I can see Brittanias head, between 1 and 2 o'clock you can see her left hand holding the staff. If so this would make it a King George copper, Vermont, or Connecticut copper. Do not try to clean it, the only details left are in the green patina. Any cleaning will simply remove what is left.

 

[jeric2]

my experience with colonial coppers has been that they don't usually corrode that bad. They usually are green with petina and very smooth to the point where you might be able to make something out or not.
Large cents on the other hand.....I've found many with corrosion like that. Could it be a large cent??

 

[Don in SJ]

Bergie, CLEAN IT - the only possible way you might get an ID on the copper is to brass brush this one, she is a goner for anything else. If an aluminum foil tracing, provides no details, then I would recommend using a brass wire toothbrush type and look for detail as you brush. Perhaps in this case electrolysis might also work, but the brass brush is quicker and less messy.

I have only ever done that to one coin, and several buttons. It did make a blank copper show some details enough to say that is it eg: 1770-75 King George III copper.

The weight for a Colonial means nothing, especially in grams, Colonials are weighed in grains. Anyway, I weighed about ten of my colonials in GRAMS so I could compare with your reading and most of my King Georges run from 6 something to 8 something in Grams.

The only thing your weighing did in this case is without a doubt eliminate any Large Cent.

I do agree, that type of corrosion is not common for the Colonial era coins, however soil conditions in your area might be responsible for that. I have only gotten Large Cents like that I believe. But it is NOT a large cent.

My guesstimate would be it is a typical counterfeit KGIII or CT coin, the weight is really not that low for a Colonial, which vary greatly in size and weight....The vast majority of circulated King George III coppers in America were not regal coins, thus so much disparity in size and weight.

Don

 

[l.cutler]

That kind of corrosion is the norm for the ones I have found in NE Pa. I can assure you a scrubbing will net you a blank disc, the surface is already gone with the exception of the green patinated areas that remain. Been there, done that.

 

[dugupfinds]

As previous stated:

At that weight & size. It can only be two possibilities (UK):

1717-1724 George II Halfpenny.

An immitation George II or III Halfpenny.

Or as someone suggested a US immitation.

How did this get moved to "The Best of TreasureNet" section?

When I found a coin below which is extremely Rare & stays in the 'Best' Section?
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,50300.0.html

Can someone explain? No sour grapes

 

[civilman1]

Damn....If I ever find a Colonial,I'll know where to go now!!!Good Luck Bergie!!This could go on for a while

 

[Don in SJ]

That kind of corrosion is the norm for the ones I have found in NE Pa. I can assure you a scrubbing will net you a blank disc, the surface is already gone with the exception of the green patinated areas that remain. Been there, done that.

A friend on mine had a horrible copper that he wired brushed and I know he has done others with similar results and even though the corrosion is different than Bergie's, you can see by the results that is surely is at least worth a try with the brush to see if any detail is on the coin.

Bergie's coin in its present condition sure could not be harmed any more and he says he sees no detail, so nothing to lose.

Don

 

[romeo-1]

Neat...there's hope for all of us. I have a dozen blank coppers that I am going to take the wire brush to tomorrow!

 

[l.cutler]

Be careful, that brush was very destructive. Some of those colonials may still be identified to variety, an R6, R7 or R8 can still be very valuable even in found conditon. Completely blank you wont hurt, or help either probably, but even a few letters can sometimes identify variety. Just make very sure before doing anything like that. Sorry, as a Colonial coin collector I get a little carried away. We are the conservators of the history that we find, keeping them for those that come after us.

 

[Don in SJ]

Be careful, that brush was very destructive. Some of those colonials may still be identified to variety, an R6, R7 or R8 can still be very valuable even in found condition. Completely blank you wont hurt, or help either probably, but even a few letters can sometimes identify variety. Just make very sure before doing anything like that. Sorry, as a Colonial coin collector I get a little carried away. We are the conservators of the history that we find, keeping them for those that come after us.

No doubt the brush is destructive but when they are toast they are toast, and I seriously doubt most horribly corroded coppers can be properly and 100% attributed, despite that, what you say is true about sometimes one marking can attribute a variety.
Attached are some examples of R5 thru R7 colonials that have been found by my son. A good example that the very rare are out there, and on the one, (L.2) that attribution can be done with very little to see. But I must say, if some cleaning of the dirt off (Hydrogen Peroxide)had not been done, there is noway these coins could have been attributed.

One is a 1785 Vermont Ryder 1 (Very Rare), and then 1787 CT Miller 36-k.3 (Rarity 7) and a 1788 Miller 16.4 or 14.1 (Rairity 6) L.2 ALL rare.

 

[mech]

The weight for a Colonial means nothing, especially in grams, Colonials are weighed in grains. Anyway, I weighed about ten of my colonials in GRAMS so I could compare with your reading and most of my King Georges run from 6 something to 8 something in Grams.

The only thing your weighing did in this case is without a doubt eliminate any Large Cent.

you are absolutely right Don. When I was looking up the weights and sizes I was in the Large cent section on PCGS site.

cheers,

 

[l.cutler]

Very nice Connecticuts! My only identifiable found Connecticuts were both the same common variety!

 

[kenb]

WOW, fantastic coins!!!!

kenb