Coins-What next?

P

Peg Leg

Bronze Member
May 29, 2006
1,520
5
QUESTION?
When a person recoveries say some coins from a Legal Site and everyhing is in their proper order WHAT next?
When does the State of Florida come in and take their share? Is it before or after the coins are cleaned and who pays for cleaning the coins.
If you have a Lease agreement with the Original Permitted Leasees when do they step in for their share?
Before or after everything is cleaned?

If you think that you have discovered a wreck that is located in a River in the State of Florida but have not confirmed this as yet what are the steps you must take FIRST?
I am NOT talking about the GHOST SHIP but another possible wreck that IS in a River.
How do you go about confirming this possible wreck without getting your butt in a bind and losing all your equipment and possible jail time?


What does the State of Florida consider its NAVAGATIONAL WATER?
If you discover a wreck at the mouth of a river but not actually in the river where is the line drawn and who decides where this line is? The State of Florida or the Federal Government?

I know that these are some hard questions to answer but I feel that there are those on this forum that know the answers or where I can find the answers
Thanks
Peg Leg
 

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Peg, almost all of your questions ultimately have to do with Florida law. Before you take anyone's advice from this forum, why not ask someone from the State Department, division of historical resources?

The state officials often get a bad rap here, but from my personal experience, I have had mostly good and straight forward dealings with them.
 

Peg
Gdaddy is right. The people at the state are not monsters. They are normal people with a job to do. They can be real helpful if you give them a chance to. Do it the right way and get the answers from the right people. It is a lot easier to get started with the right knowledge.
Seahunter
 

I contacted the State of Florida.
They told me that it was alright to dive on a wreck as long as I did not remove anything or disturb the site.
They also asked that I take some photos if possible and send them a copy.
They WERE friendly which makes me a little suspect ::).
However they could not tell me how far from the mouth of a river that the State had TOTAL control over.
My question was:
Where does the State of Florida claim 100% rights to everything and will not allow any salvage rights whatsoever?
Where does the State of Florida draw the line concerning Rivers emptying into the Gulf or Atlantic Ocean?
Can anyone tell me what the YELLOW/ORANGE line around the State of Florida (on Google Earth) stands for?
Thanks
Peg Leg
 

Peg leg,
Go to your local marine store and buy a chart of the area of interest. On it you will find both State and Federal waters very clearly defined. It's a black line.
Donovan
 

peg leg,
i read somewhere on one of the states sites that any submerged land is under thier control,that means the little pond in your yard too.send them some pics but dont give them any gps cords,if your wreck happens to be in one of thier upcomming preserve areas then you are up the creek without a paddle or SOL.you will just be working for them at that point till they boot you out an take it over an send in thier university students.if you have anything there after you dive it,mag an SS.get photos of artifacts in situ,apply for the permits.get a maritime lawyer.i have had good results with talking to the people there in talahassel.they will mail you hard copies of map info as well as email you the stuff you need.remember its all about money and the historical part and thier 20% of whatever treasure you find.
 

PS. they can trace your ISP address and find out who you are and where you live.
 

Peg Leg,

Most of the early shipwrecks on the Florida coast were Spanish. Spanish shipwrecks in US waters have special status under the 1902 between the US and Spain. Although the specific case of a wreck in a river has not been tested in a court, I think that the Federal Treaty will take precedence over State law, which is probably based on a false premise anyway. I do not think that the State of Florida has any claim to title of Spanish shipwrecks within their territory any more, even though their statutes might not have been updated as yet to reflect the recent Federal Court rulings.

That's the question to start by asking the State of Florida. When I asked them about a year ago about Spanish wrecks within the State's territorial sea, they said that they did not have any changes planned to their shipwreck-related statutes, but that is because these statutes already refer to "abandoned" shipwrecks. The 2000 Sea Hunt Federal Court of Appeals hearing ruled that Spanish shipwrecks in US waters are not "abandoned" except by specific act on the part of their owners, and therefore not subject to the 1987 Abandoned Shipwrecks Act, which is what devolves title and management of certain shipwrecks from the Federal Government to the coastal states.

I understand from a very reliable source, for example, that requests for salvage permits from the Fisher group in respect of the 1733 wrecks have been refused by the State of Florida, and I assume that is because they no longer have any claim to title and therefore no right to issue salvage permits. Although nobody will try turning the clock back on permits already issued, I doubt that Florida will be issuing any more for Spanish wrecks.

I bet the same applies to Spanish wrecks which have ended up on land (where there is no concept of abandonment for lost property) or in inland waterways. The 1902 Treaty covers "shipwrecks, damages at sea, or forced putting in" of Spanish ships.

Peg Leg, try asking the people at the State whether they claim any jurisdiction over Spanish wrecks in their inland waterways. They might well have rights when it comes to disturbing their soil which is covering your wreck, but if, for example, you had permission from the wreck's owner, being the Spanish Government or a private individual, I do not know if they would have the right to stop you recovering the wreck, only to put conditions on damaging their soil,mud or other such materials. Ask them, and let us know their answer.

Mariner
 

eathabs,


Your IP address is shown only to you and moderators. Remember that this information is not identifying, and that most IPs change periodically.

You cannot see other members' IP addresses, and they cannot see yours.

If i wanted to i could spoof my ip# an make it look like i was in russia or china,or anywhere i wanted. but no need to do it here.plus get a freebie email adress like gmail.
 

I contacted a Mr. Moates who is an Ach 111 with the State of Florida.
We have been emailing each other for the past couple of days.
I find it STRANGE that each time he answers my email there is always a little statement that states a Florida Law that if you remove any thing from Public or Private lands that this is a class 3 Felony. I know what he is saying covers anything that may be of Historical importance.
I have read this LAW many many times and always go to the part that says DIGGING near the end of the statement.
I have asked him to explain what DIGGING means :-\.
To me it is the removal of any type of overburden which includes mud, sand, silt or dirt by whatever type of equipment that can be used. I have not found a single explanation that states WATER as an overburden.
I know for a fact that TIDES remove tons of overburden everytime it comes in and goes out so all I have to do is watch the tides and let NATURE do all the work ;D (Yea right).
By the way I could give a Rats A** if the State knows who I am and where I live. This is still the Good Ole U.S.A.
Peg Leg
 

Pegleg, I really don't think the state of Florida is particularly interested in any of your projects. They read the postings here too. You have nothing to worry about. ;)
 

I agree with you. They have bigger fish to fry.
I did ask if the State of Florida was issueing any new Leases. I have received NOTHING.
Peg Leg
 

Trez,
I have read this several times and all I see is that it is a crime to dig up GRAVE SITES regardless of where they may be located on public or private land.
The LAW mentions that this is a class C felony and that you can lose what equipment you have ON SITE.
If you are going to break this LAW then I suggest that you have someone drop you and your shovel off and leave the area and have a Bondsman on call.
Peg Leg
 

Did any one know that the State of Florida ask all those that use a Metal Detector on the beachs that if you find something regardless of when it was lost to turn it in to the State so they might return it to the rightfull owner.
What a crock of CRAP.
Peg Leg
 

Peg Leg said:
Trez,
I have read this several times and all I see is that it is a crime to dig up GRAVE SITES regardless of where they may be located on public or private land.
The LAW mentions that this is a class C felony and that you can lose what equipment you have ON SITE.
If you are going to break this LAW then I suggest that you have someone drop you and your shovel off and leave the area and have a Bondsman on call.
Peg Leg
Click to expand...

Peg,
Were your comments about breaking the law and the Bondsman aimed towards me?
The link I posted pertains to water bodies of the State of Florida.
Grave sites? you or me?

Trez
 

I found something very interesting that the Mel Fisher people should read VERY CARFULLY.
Take the time and see if you can find it. It on the site that TREZ posted.
It has to do with Reproduction, coping work even when you say or stamp that it is a copy.
Interesting.
Peg Leg
 

Pegleg: I am not sure what you have against the "Mel Fisher people" but they are not in violation of any laws by making Atocha reproductions coins or replica coins from Atocha silver bars. They are good people. They are smart business people. Better yet, they have skilled lawyers to advise them beforehand so they won't need even better lawyers after the fact.

I assume you are referring to:

(3) Any person who:

(a) Reproduces, retouches, reworks, or forges any archaeological or historical object originating from an archaeological site as designated by ss. 267.11-267.14 and deriving its principal value from its antiquity or makes any such object, whether a copy or not; or

(b) Falsely labels, describes, identifies, or offers for sale or exchange any object with intent to represent the same to be an original and genuine archaeological or historical specimen,

commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
 

My friend what I was a teenager I rode on the back of a buggy and threw out pounds of cut nails all over the beach Mel was the driver. He promised to pay me $15.00 a day. I worked for 6 days and never got a dime.
This still sticks in my craw and always will. Back then I needed the money for gas. I drove from Titusville everyday to the inlet at Sabastian.
Peg Leg
PS Yes this is what I am talking about.
 

FISHEYE, I stand corrected. Not standing for too long though, need to kneel to dig!!
 

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