Coins, Buttons, Seals or?????

[pegleglooker]

Hi Guys,
This is a photo from the 1960's, so I apologize for the condition, but these items were supposedly found in a cave in Southern California. They might be items from a 16th century Spanish shipwreck.... To me they appear too thick for buttons or coins to me, I was thinking maybe seals, or some sort of religious medallion but even that doesn't look right. Any help will be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance...

Adios
PLL

 

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[crashbandicoot]

I don,t know but they sure are interesting.

 

[Red-Coat]

Where is the picture from?

Does this relate to Joseph Markey’s ridiculed claims that Francisco de Ulloa and his crew were the first white men to set foot on California soil? He claimed they had sailed to “upper California” in 1540, beating Juan Cabrillo’s discovery of San Diego Bay by two years. All kinds of guff about treasure (never materialised) and a claim that he had “proof” from 22 “white European” skeletons he discovered in a cave in the San Luis Rey Valley together with “their weapons, a breastplate, lead buttons, gold coins, and a Spanish helmet dated back to the 1530s” (none of which were verified).

 

[pegleglooker]

Red-Coat, yes, but right now we are just trying to determine if these items are real.... I was told by someone that they may be Native American gaming pieces as well....

 

[cudamark]

They look like painted rocks to me

 

[Red-Coat]

Red-Coat, yes, but right now we are just trying to determine if these items are real.... I was told by someone that they may be Native American gaming pieces as well....

I thought as much, but can you give us background and context for the picture?

Who took it and where was it published (if at all)?
Is it cropped from a larger picture?
Is it the only picture, or are there others?
Was there any accompanying description of what the items were believed to be or made of?
Any other items found with them?
Was it said exactly where the cave might be, apart from "Southern California", or who the discoverer was?
What was the fate of the items themselves after discovery... was it said where they went to after the picture was taken?

 

[Fossils]

Yeah a black and white photo with little context will not get you far.

I can at least say they are likely not of Native American origin. Discoidals/gaming stones were not elaborately carved. Further south in Mesoamerica, maybe, but certainly not in California.

 

[Steve Baldwin]

I thought as much, but can you give us background and context for the picture?

Who took it and where was it published (if at all)?
Is it cropped from a larger picture?
Is it the only picture, or are there others?
Was there any accompanying description of what the items were believed to be or made of?
Any other items found with them?
Was it said exactly where the cave might be, apart from "Southern California", or who the discoverer was?
What was the fate of the items themselves after discovery... was it said where they went to after the picture was taken?

Yes, Red-Coat, this pic is from Markey's file collection which we have. In the collection, there are pics of skeletons and coins, but we have determined the pics are from Tahiti and that Markey hoaxed the entire story in 1951. Our team (which John was member of), spent six months researching the Markey/Trinidad story and have found solid evidence that it Markey made it all up.

 

[Steve Baldwin]

Yes, Red-Coat, this pic is from Markey's file collection which we have. In the collection, there are pics of skeletons and coins, but we have determined the pics are from Tahiti and that Markey hoaxed the entire story in 1951. Our team (which John was member of), spent six months researching the Markey/Trinidad story and have found solid evidence that it Markey made it all up.

This pic is all we have of the "artifacts" he claimed to have found. There were no descriptions. Our research indicates that the entire story was phony and the pic was some kind of Indian gaming pieces that can be found in lots of museums. All the pics of the cave with the skeletons were furnished to the press by Markey -- no reporter ever saw a cave. As for the burial site of Capt. Ulloa, we spoke with people who excavated it and it was fake. No bones, nothing in it.