Coin Newbie Needs Help!! 1909-S VDB... X 3! REALLY!

twodogsnacat

Greenie
Aug 28, 2012
14
3
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
In 2009 my dad gave me a box full of old coins that my 87-year-old aunt and late uncle had accumulated over the years. It had old silver dollars, half dollars, old foreign coins, and wheat pennies. I sold some of the silver dollars, and also found out the hard way that polishing your silver coins to make them pretty and shiny is frowned upon in the coin collecting world!! So much for that. Then, a former business-partner/friend stole the rest of them, leaving me the old foreign coins and the wheat pennies.

All of that was a pretty negative experience, so I steered clear of the coin box because I figured the majority of the value had disappeared along with the silver coins. Looking to sell some of our things, 3 weeks ago my boyfriend and I decided to sort through the wheat cents, etc., and discovered 2 separate wheat pennies buried under the other coins. They ended up being 2 1909-S VDBs! We took them to 4 local dealers and yes, they are authentic.

Now we are looking at every single penny we see, and last night we were going through the change jar because I remembered that about a month ago I had a wheat penny mixed in with some other change, and knowing nothing, just tossed it in with the other change. When he came into the room, I said "I found the wheat penny!" and he said "What year is it?" Since i didn't have my glasses I said I couldn't see the year, so he picked it up and said "Guess what year it is, just guess!!!" it was ANOTHER 1909-S VDB, in great, maybe even better condition than the first 2! (It is also authentic.)

We now have THREE 1909-S VDB wheat pennies! The 4 dealers who have scrutinized them, made offers on them, etc are giving us some information and we don't know what or who to believe as far as grading, etc., goes. Initially, the first dealer misled us by trying to downplay the quality of the first 2, and then made a big production about how the coins were questionable--- however, he made an offer to buy them, then when we called him back the next day he upped his original offer-- "willing to take them off our hands and take the risk." When I asked him if it would be a good idea to have them evaluated by a reputable company, he insisted there was no need for that since he claimed to be the Wheat Penny King or something like that!! This was Day 2 into our new coin collecting adventure!

The third dealer was actually pretty helpful and made a much higher offer than the first 2 characters, and encouraged us to have the first 2 graded. The 3rd and 4th dealer have seen all 3 coins. The fourth dealer was also seemingly upfront, but said grading was not something that would necessarily raise the price since he said he graded coins for PCGS and he was even more knowledgeable than the Wheat Penny King I believe. He offered us more than the third guy, but not as much as I have seen them go for on Ebay, etc.
We want to send them in to be graded, but first would like to get an idea on their quality. We want to sell them-- in fact we need to sell them but don't want to blow it. We are 3 weeks into our coin collecting adventure now, and although I have been learning everything I can find, it doesn't make up for lack of experience!!

We are hoping some of you experienced collectors can look at the photos just to give us an idea on their grade so we will know what to do and how to sell them before sending them out to be graded.

I have taken tons of photos so please let me know if you need more. Note the color changes are due to lighting, none are enhanced. Any help, suggestions, advice would be more than welcomed and appreciated.
COIN 1: G2.jpgG3.jpgG4.jpgG3R.jpgG8.jpg
COIN 2:S1.jpgS1 R.jpgS2 R.jpgS2.jpgS5.jpg
COIN 3:3RDVDB1.jpg3RDVDB2.jpg3RDVDBR1.jpg
ALL 3: ALLVDB1.jpgALLVDB2.jpg
 

Get them Graded Profesionally

the 1909 S VDB is worth it

I say they are at least EF condition but no expert.

as is I wouldn't sell for less then $1200 each
 

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I agree send them off and have PCGS grade them. You kill two birds one stone, first off you get the grade plus with that comes the solid aspect of value. Grading or authenticating a coin from a picture is very hard. Me personally I see nothing to doubt they are real. Plus with the story on how they were discovered sounds very legitimate. Coin shops will down play your coins to give them more profit. I will say you have some very nice finds. Me personally call me crazy but I am going high end on these and going to say that value wise 6-10K on the whole lot! You have found something very nice and don't let someone rob you out of them. If I just didn't buy a 1909 S-vdb I would be throwing you a very generous offer. Please keep us posted on these coins.
 

dustywallen said:
I agree send them off and have PCGS grade them. You kill two birds one stone, first off you get the grade plus with that comes the solid aspect of value. Grading or authenticating a coin from a picture is very hard. Me personally I see nothing to doubt they are real. Plus with the story on how they were discovered sounds very legitimate. Coin shops will down play your coins to give them more profit. I will say you have some very nice finds. Me personally call me crazy but I am going high end on these and going to say that value wise 6-10K on the whole lot! You have found something very nice and don't let someone rob you out of them. If I just didn't buy a 1909 S-vdb I would be throwing you a very generous offer. Please keep us posted on these coins.

Just for the record coin #3 is a legend!
 

You have hit the lottery when it comes to wheat cents. Don't rush it. From now on, handle them with gloves. The first coin you will see the fingerprints that are evident. Don't try and clean the prints off. Leave it as it is. Don't sell as a lot. Sell each individually after they have been graded. Have them graded by PCGS. I would love to see the results of the graded coins when you get them back. I would love to add these or one of them to my collection.

With these coins, I would eliminate the middle man. The dealer is going to need to make money, and he will make a lot of money for little effort on his part. They probably have a call list of collectors who are willing to pay. In a matter of hours, the dealers will have your coins flipped for a huge profit. Why shouldn't you have that profit. First and foremost, you need them graded by the best to lend legitimacy and definitive value to the buyer. From there, it is a matter of selecting the appropriate venue (me!).
 

1. Find a reputable dealer. Someone you can trust. Submit them for PCGS grading.
2. Sell each on slabbed coin on ebay individually.
3. Profit.

You did great and should be able to pull $4500-5000 out of the 3 if sold correctly.
 

Your answer makes a lot of sense and really helps a lot. It kinda sucks that these dealers down-play the coins with newbies like me, but that's the way things go when there's profit. (With the first two coins on Day 2 we were told their weights were "strangely off" and they had "never seen that before with such authentic looking coins," yet the dealer was willing to buy them "and take the risk." We went home and got out the digital scale and weighed ALL of the wheat pennies and they ALL weighed the same.) Then we were told their quality wasn't "very high" but the offer sure came in. The next dealer said they were "easily a 'high AU and could possibly come back from PCGS or NGC with an uncirculated grade..." He made a higher offer.

Looking at all of the photos comparing AU pennies with MS pennies, to me it looks like these seem to have more of the qualities seen in the MS pennies. We would love to know an opinion from someone with a more experienced eye judging from photos alone. We are only selling because we need the money and God knows I collect enough things as it is already! This is like an amazing gift from my favorite aunt and uncle, neither one is with us anymore (my aunt has Alzheimers and uncle passed away in the early 90s. We may need to sell one raw in order to get the funds to have them graded. I'm working on the best way to do that right now.

I will keep you posted, and I appreciate your post. I feel more hopeful already.
I agree send them off and have PCGS grade them. You kill two birds one stone, first off you get the grade plus with that comes the solid aspect of value. Grading or authenticating a coin from a picture is very hard. Me personally I see nothing to doubt they are real. Plus with the story on how they were discovered sounds very legitimate. Coin shops will down play your coins to give them more profit. I will say you have some very nice finds. Me personally call me crazy but I am going high end on these and going to say that value wise 6-10K on the whole lot! You have found something very nice and don't let someone rob you out of them. If I just didn't buy a 1909 S-vdb I would be throwing you a very generous offer. Please keep us posted on these coins.
 

This is encouraging. I am afraid to touch these pennies, and that's pretty funny to me when I think about it. I see the fingerprint or what looks like a cloth mark or whatever and I will never clean another valuable coin for as long as I live-- cleaning and polishing all those really old silver dollars was a huge lesson, believe me.

I am glad you mentioned to sell them individually and not as a lot-- we wondered if we should try to sell them as a lot but we will sell them individually.

When we get the PCGS results I will post an update here.

I am glad I posted on this forum-- you are all very helpful and I thank you!
You have hit the lottery when it comes to wheat cents. Don't rush it. From now on, handle them with gloves. The first coin you will see the fingerprints that are evident. Don't try and clean the prints off. Leave it as it is. Don't sell as a lot. Sell each individually after they have been graded. Have them graded by PCGS. I would love to see the results of the graded coins when you get them back. I would love to add these or one of them to my collection.

With these coins, I would eliminate the middle man. The dealer is going to need to make money, and he will make a lot of money for little effort on his part. They probably have a call list of collectors who are willing to pay. In a matter of hours, the dealers will have your coins flipped for a huge profit. Why shouldn't you have that profit. First and foremost, you need them graded by the best to lend legitimacy and definitive value to the buyer. From there, it is a matter of selecting the appropriate venue (me!).
 

1. Find a reputable dealer. Someone you can trust. Submit them for PCGS grading.
2. Sell each on slabbed coin on ebay individually.
3. Profit.

You did great and should be able to pull $4500-5000 out of the 3 if sold correctly.

Really?????? Wow-- I am at a loss for words for a change....
 

2DogsNaCat - Like I said earlier, Don't rush it. Good things come to those who wait. I will give you my personal opinion/grade on each later tonight or tomorrow.
 

2DogsNaCat - Like I said earlier, Don't rush it. Good things come to those who wait. I will give you my personal opinion/grade on each later tonight or tomorrow.

Thank you so very much!! Your opinion would be so helpful, and thank you for your words of wisdom!!
 

Diver Down, please let me know if you want to see more photos. Thanks again!
 

Let me implore you to get each one graded. You have 3 high grade key date cents. Which means the 3 are worth a lot of money. Collectors who have and are willing to spend that kind of money need reassurance that the coins are authentic. Selling a raw coin to fund the cost of grading the other two is not the best course of action. Find the money. Get only one graded and sell it. It will fund the other two.

Now, I don't want to seem overly critical in my grades as I don't want to "sugarcoat" the opinion. When submitting to PCGS, they will be the most conservative with grading process.

Coin 3: Die #4 was used for this specimen. It features the lowest of the mintmarks. As noted earlier, it has the fingerprint across the obverse. Don't attempt to clean it. Also, you'll note a rim ding at 11 o'clock on the obverse. There is also some marks in the field above LIBERTY and the biggest concern above the mintmark. On the reverse, there are some minor marks in the field at 2 o'clock. Overall, it has uncirculated details, but the rim ding and the marks might knock it down to an AU 58 grade. Estimate - $1600*.

Coin 2: The first picture is actually of Coin 1. It would be an extradinary coincidence if they had the same rim ding at 11 o'clock. No major marks and dings with plenty of luster will elevate this coin into the mint state grades. It too is minted from Die #4. The reverse has uneven wear pattern between the two wheat ears. The left is pristine, yet the right shows wear. Perhaps, this is due to lighting. It could also be caused by surface friction. This imbalance keeps it from the upper mint state grades. It is a solid MS-60, but might even push a 61 or 62. Estimate - $1800*.

Coin 3: Again, another Die #4 marriage. Overall, this is the nicest of the all. Unfortunately, there is a rim ding at 5 o'clock on the reverse. It isn't overly distracting but it will effect the grade. Without the ding, I would have given a MS-64 grade perhaps MS-65. Overall, I would grade it MS-63 with an estimate of $1900*.

If the last one can push a 65, then it would be estimated at $4100*.

Price estimates are based on the Sept. 2012 Coin Market monthly price guide published in the latest Numismatic News.
 

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I know I am going off topic, but what are the foreign coins? You can PM me and I can tell you if any are key dates/silver.
 

Let me implore you to get each one graded. You have 3 high grade key date cents. Which means the 3 are worth a lot of money. Collectors who have and are willing to spend that kind of money need reassurance that the coins are authentic. Selling a raw coin to fund the cost of grading the other two is not the best course of action. Find the money. Get only one graded and sell it. It will fund the other two.

Now, I don't want to seem overly critical in my grades as I don't want to "sugarcoat" the opinion. When submitting to PCGS, they will be the most conservative with grading process.

Coin 3: Die #4 was used for this specimen. It features the lowest of the mintmarks. As noted earlier, it has the fingerprint across the obverse. Don't attempt to clean it. Also, you'll note a rim ding at 11 o'clock on the obverse. There is also some marks in the field above LIBERTY and the biggest concern above the mintmark. On the reverse, there are some minor marks in the field at 2 o'clock. Overall, it has uncirculated details, but the rim ding and the marks might knock it down to an AU 58 grade. Estimate - $1600*.

Coin 2: The first picture is actually of Coin 1. It would be an extradinary coincidence if they had the same rim ding at 11 o'clock. No major marks and dings with plenty of luster will elevate this coin into the mint state grades. It too is minted from Die #4. The reverse has uneven wear pattern between the two wheat ears. The left is pristine, yet the right shows wear. Perhaps, this is due to lighting. It could also be caused by surface friction. This imbalance keeps it from the upper mint state grades. It is a solid MS-60, but might even push a 61 or 62. Estimate - $1800*.

Coin 3: Again, another Die #4 marriage. Overall, this is the nicest of the all. Unfortunately, there is a rim ding at 5 o'clock on the reverse. It isn't overly distracting but it will effect the grade. Without the ding, I would have given a MS-64 grade perhaps MS-65. Overall, I would grade it MS-63 with an estimate of $1900*.

If the last one can push a 65, then it would be estimated at $4100*.

Price estimates are based on the Sept. 2012 Coin Market monthly price guide published in the latest Numismatic News.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write out your opinion on these! I have to say that you have such a good eye for details! I think you are right about the first photo of Coin 2. I looked at Coin 1 again with the loupe and the ding at 11 o'clock is much more pronounced in the photo(s). Coin 2 does not have a ding at 11 o'clock.

I also looked at the wheat ears again on Coin 2 and I believe it was the lighting. I have more photos if you have any interest in seeing them, but your reply was more than adequate and quite appreciated.

I apologize for the delayed response- my internet connection was down.

We are hoping to be able to send at least one off for grading on Tuesday, and out of the 3 we will send the best one first. When it comes back I will post an update.

Many thanks!
 

Takes weeks to get them back unless you pay for "Express" service which is quite costly.
 

Update

Any updates on these coins?

Yes-- all three were submitted to PCGS and should be back by early next week--- THEN I can take a breath! I will post the results here when I get them back... (:
 

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