Cob found today at colonial site.. NEW PICS

[umrgolf]

Would like to get a round-about date This is only my second cob and its very different from the first... i'll post pics of both.. i believe the second one to be a 1699 one reale.. the one from today is a half reale

Today's






May 22nd cob




NEW PICS

 

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[goldcoastwayne]

Re: Cob found today at colonial site

Very nice cobs!

Your first cob displays the "Florenzada Cross"...noted by the fleur-de-lis and knobs or balls on the ends of the cross. That is a sure sign of the Mexico City mint, just like my 4 reale avatar (abt. 1630). At first glance I would say yours is a 1 reale, but it could be a half reale. (This observation was made prior to the upddated photos). The cross and parameter details are usually too large for a half reale. The obverse is difficult to see the assayer, but is safe to say it is from the very early 1700's...but could be earlier. If the period stated is correct it was struck under the reign of Felipe V, but if earlier, it could be Carlos II or Felipe IV. A great comparison is at this link: http://www.colonialcobs.com/forum/index.php?topic=16.0

Your second cob is likely a bit earlier. It is a 1 reale and was minted in Lima, Peru. It displays the "Cross of Jerusalem". On the cross side, the letters at 10 o'clock in full are HISPANIARVM, which is Latin for "of the Spains".(Frank Sedwick, "The Practical Book Of Cobs") There is a reason it is spelled in plural, referring to feudal times before the the small kingdoms of the Iberian peninsula were united into one nation by Ferdinand and Isabel. It is safe to say that this one is from the mid to late 1600's. I do believe I see a 9 and possibly another...1699, fits into the parameters. If the period stated is correct, it is struck under the reign of Carlos II.

Others on this thread may be able to expand on the details.

Best of luck!

goldcoastwayne

 

[umrgolf]

Re: Cob found today at colonial site

Thank you for a great reply wayne! the first is indeed a 1/2 and both were dug on the same property you are very knowledgable, thanks again

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Cob found today at colonial site

Weight is another way to assist in the determination of denomination.
The 1/2 R should weight about 1.6-1.7 grams; the 1R--about 3.4 grams.
Don...
Adding on: The second coin has been struck more than once as shown by the tops of the columns (the crowns) not aligned with the columns. Also, the denomination appears in the middle-top of the 'tic-tac-toe'; and while it may be a 1R, it also can be interpreted (by these weak eyes) as a '4'. Again, the weight on the coin will quickly differentiate the denominations.

 

[realeswatcher]

Re: Cob found today at colonial site

The Lima 1 Real you found on May 22nd is a nice little piece... Full crown, plus "(P)ERV" (Peru) visible, pretty nice cross, good patina. Does look to be assayer "R"... though I think that date could actually be "95" rather than "99" (the Lima 5 was particularly funky).

The Mexico cob you just found is a curious little piece. I believe it's a 1650's half real, assayer P. I actually thought it was a 1 Real on first glance, as I took that vertical line to be the left edge of the Hapsburg or Bourbon shield design. However, you're saying it's definitely a half real... and as I look at it, that vertical line DOES look to be the vertical post of "P" of the "PVS" (Philippus) monogram, as would be seen on the half-real denomination.

As mackaydon said, comparing yours to those weights will tell you for sure whether it is a half rather than a 1R...

I've rotated your pics to what looks like proper alignment. Taking the cross side first... Judging by the "all fours" style of the lion, I think you have something from the mid-to-late 1600's. Now to the other side, the mintmark/assayer and date areas ARE visible due to the off-center strike, but it looks like there's some slight doubling going on that blurs the view. However, we do see a fat Mo mintmark... Then for the assayer, I think we're seeing the upper bubble half of a fat "P"... And the more I look at the date area, I think I see "165"...

The lion, the fat Mo P, and besides whatever you can actually decipher of the digits, just the positioning of the date (the dates on the early 1700's Philip V half real pieces are located higher up) are very similar to 1650s Philip IV half real pieces I have reference pics of... I think that's what yours is.

 

[goldcoastwayne]

Re: Cob found today at colonial site

The lion, the fat Mo P, and besides whatever you can actually decipher of the digits, just the positioning of the date (the dates on the early 1700's Philip V half real pieces are located higher up) are very similar to 1650s Philip IV half real pieces I have reference pics of... I think that's what yours is.

Very nice observation...with the coin rotated, I am inclined to agree with you. Assayer "P" was responsible for coins minted from 1634-1665. This is the typical assayer for coins salvaged from the "Concepcion" sunk 1641. I had a gut feeling this one may have been earlier...the assayer sealed the deal and your coin was thus produced under the reign of Felipe IV.

goldcoastwayne

 

[umrgolf]

Re: Cob found today at colonial site

Again thanks for the great info.. as for denominations, the cob in question is smaller than a dime and the one from may is a little bigger than a dime and approx twice the weight.. I took some great close-ups today and my usb drive isnt working all of the sudden not sure whats goin on but it wont read the card from two separate devices and my computer shows the device attached i tried a different memory card, same thing

 

[umrgolf]

ok, there's a couple better ones

 

[realeswatcher]

ok, there's a couple better ones

Those confirm the Mexican piece you just found is definitely a half real... and still looks to be Philip IV, 1650's. The larger one is, as discussed, a Lima 1690's 1 Real.

 

[umrgolf]

ok, there's a couple better ones

Those confirm the Mexican piece you just found is definitely a half real... and still looks to be Philip IV, 1650's. The larger one is, as discussed, a Lima 1690's 1 Real.

thank you, you guys are impressive