Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence-Updated -a Date and Very Rare

Don in SJ

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Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence-Updated -a Date and Very Rare

Monday morning I went back to the sawmill site area where I got the beautiful 1796 Liberty Cap Large Cent on April 30th. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,85882.0.html

After an hour of digging nothing but shotgun casings, I finally got the high sweet tone and crosshair in upper right on the Explorer and a depth of about 8 inches, so I was fairly certain it was going to be another copper. It was. :)

I was surprised at first that it was a coin, I thought upon first glance that it was a broken tombac button, which break in unusual ways, but no, I could see part of REX so I new it was a British copper. More on the copper later in this post.

After finding the coin, nearby I got the first of two early 1800's flat buttons, one with no backmark and one with what I believe is gilt or colour, the button is too far gone to tell for sure, but they both fit in with the dozen I have found at this site.

I started exploring a bit for about an hour, went maybe two or three blocks back into the woods towards some fields that my son and I looked at this winter but the ground was frozen. Clam shell fragments were scattered throughout the fields but not from a homestead being there, more likely being used as an additive to the soil, like nowadays farmers add lime in this region. I will hit the fields another day, although I know they have been pounded by others.

As I exited the one field I was near a small cellarhole we found a few months ago and really got nothing there, except for one lonely Indianhead penny nearby. But I got a nice reading and out of the ground pops a nice little piece of silver. It is a broken solid silver buckle and if that were intact, that would have been my showpiece relic of the year. I can just imagine how that buckle looked prior to being broken. I will go back and search the area in hopes of finding the rest of it...

Overall, I was pleased with the hunt, the solid silver piece of buckle was very nice to find, since almost all I have are not silver and yes, some that are silver plated, but none that are solid silver. But, it is the King George III copper that really brings a smile to my face.

The copper is not a common one, well most are not here anyway, since Regal King George III coppers are in the minority for being found, since they were not as plentiful back than as were the counterfeits/imitations which flooded the colonies from manufacturers in England and then here in the colonies.

Now, what makes this counterfeit/imitation special to me is, besides being another nice counterfeit, it is a severely clipped planchet coin. In addition to it looks like several other strikes were made on the planchet on the Reverse side.

I submitted the coin's photo to the Counterfeit group of the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4) in hopes of them identifying it by family/group and even possibly giving a year.
I waited till this evening and the reply I got was not what I was hoping for. They could not come up with an attribution of this coin, at least not yet, so if I here of one I will add that to this post, but one of the experts thought it perhaps was similar to a 1784 rare variety counterfeit, of which I asked them to send me a photo to compare, and other than that, they were baffled.

However, one statement was nice: "it is very rare to see a clipped planchet of that magnitude on a circulated King George III counterfeit copper"....

Date, well, I guess for now I will log it as a standard, 1770-75 for the year, which means undated, but MS Excel requires for sorting purposes numbers LOL.......
The coin is 27mm in diameter and weighs 100.8 grains.

I will be going back to the site again either Thursday or Friday, summer will soon be here and time for the detector and detectorist to take a break.

For those who do not understand what a clipped planchet is, look at this link, although it is explaining under modern times, the result and terminology is basically the same. http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.asp?IDArticle=312

Don in SJ
 

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Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Wow,

That seems like a great Hunt, nice Copper Freek.

Keep @ it and HH!!
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

a great post. Congrats on the finds.
Burdie
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

damn don that site keeps on producing congrats and as always hh
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Nice find Don as usual.uuuuummm can i have it ::)AA
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

that's a very unique find Don . . . and a really nice assortment of artifacts . . . thanks for all the info.
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Great post, Don!
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Great post... Thanks for the story and amazing pics... Wish you the best of luck in finding the rest of that SWEET buckle...
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Awesome digs, Don. Love the pics.

;) RR
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Great finds Don...Good luck on finding the rest of the buckle.

NJ
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Congrats on the finds Don and nice post! HH, Mike
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Cool finds, Don. And a super post and pics.

I'm curious though. How are you so sure that the King G. is counterfeit? Is it based solely on its rarity?
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

paul1410 said:
Cool finds, Don. And a super post and pics.

I'm curious though. How are you so sure that the King G. is counterfeit? Is it based solely on its rarity?

First off, the odds are it is a counterfeit of some type, since the majority that circulated in the colonies were. But, usually the main things to look for without looking at photos of known Regal coins, is WEIGHT, I bought a good scale couple years ago that measures in GRAINS and the weight of counterfeits are usually anywhere from 20-60 or so grains less than a regal.

There are different types of non-regal coppers. Facsimile counterfeit or Imitation coppers. These counterfeits were very close looking to their regal counterparts but were low in weight and debased metallic content.

There were Evasion Coppers. Where the designs were similar to the Regal coppers but the words were purposely changed , for example instead of saying George III REX, it would say George Rules, this was to bypass British counterfeit laws, thus the term Evasion coppers.

There were others, which I won't explain, Blacksmith coppers, North American made coppers, Machin Mills coppers and some others.

But weight, is the main factor, the only reason to counterfeit was to make money, so by making the coins thinner and/or using less pure copper, the counterfeiter would make money on each coin by using less copper.

A lot of the counterfeits are of poor design quality also, so lightweight and a funny letter or very uneven lettering are the two biggest clues.

There are photos or Regal coins on the internet that you can compare to, and once you start comparing, you will be able to see the differences in most cases.

Colonial Coin collecting is a growing hobby and I have learned and am still learning a lot about them by joining the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4) http://www.colonialcoins.org/

If you want to see examples of Counterfeits and Regals, there is a nice website that has good examples.. http://www.geocities.com/copperclem/Counterfeits_page1.html

Sorry for somewhat long reply, but hope some useful info is here for you.

Don
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

Thanks for the reply, Don. It was comprehensive and very interesting.

All in all, the coin is still a very cool find!
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

paul1410 said:
Thanks for the reply, Don. It was comprehensive and very interesting.

All in all, the coin is still a very cool find!

I left one important fact out, it is the counterfeits that are desired by the Colonial collectors and not the Regals to any degree. :)

So, when I say it is a counterfeit, that is not meant as a derogatory comment, it is a factual one and does not demean in the find, since they are the ones in demand, depending upon several factors..... :)

Don
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

The story, finds and pictures are GREAT as always, Don! Congrats!

Nana :)
 

Re: Unusual Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence

I mentioned that counterfeit colonial coppers, especially King George III coppers are in demand by collectors IF they are counterfeits,and especially if they are American made ones or very rare British ones.

So, I submitted photos of my clipped KGIII copper to the counterfeit study group of colonial era coins and to my surprise and delight the replies I got were one of great news for me.

It seems this particular coin has the reverse of a rare known variety, called a Vlack 14-84A with Mr Vlack assigning the number 14 to that style Obverse of the coin and 84A for the Reverse design.

My copper has the exact same reverse of that Vlack 14-84A which now allows me to say it is a 1784 copper and not an unknown 1770-75 regal dated one.

The bust side (Obverse) however is different from the Vlack 14, although what has excited the collectors is that the same letter punches were used to make my coin, meaning it was made at the same location.

This coin, they think is only the second one known of this new variety and I am sending it away to the group so they can examine it and photograph along side of a Vlack 14-84A coin and than do an overlay to definitely confirm the same letters and same style.

No number has been assigned to this new variety, and I hope they do, since if it is only one of two known, and a variety number is assigned, and the fact that it is a clipped planchet all adds up to a very nice appraisal.

I will update when I hear more, but for being a lowly King George III copper, it has generated some excitement in the colonial coin world............

I included a photo of my coin with a Vlack 14-84A for comparison purposes, BTW, a nice Vlack 14-84A went for $3750 at auction about year ago, but it was in nice shape. I could only hope for even a fraction of that for value, but still would be happy. :)

Don
 

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Re: Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence-Updated -a Date and Very Rare

What a great find!! Congrats! Great Pics.. HH
 

Re: Clipped Planchet King George III Halfpence-Updated -a Date and Very Rare

Thanks for the interesting update and for the excellent photos.
 

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