✅ SOLVED Civilian or Military Isse Button?

[CousinEddie]

Found this button the other day. Is it civilian or military? I have had conflicting suggestions. Thank you in advance.

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

As discussed many times in the What-Is-It forum, that particular version is definitely not an actual US Navy button, it is a crudely-detailed imitation made for use on civilian clothing. Button-collectors call that type a Fashion button. You can buy the same thing today at sewing-supplies stores like JoAnn Fabrics & Crafts.

 

[CousinEddie]

I can go to Joann's Fabrics and buy this exact button? Didn't know it was discussed "many times"...There are THOUSANDS of threads, can't get through them all...ya' know? I figured it might have some age to it...guess not....Thanks....

 

[CousinEddie]

I JUST saw another thread that was posted last year with a button that is similar. My button is the same size and has the same back as the other button in the link.

Cannonball Guy...You didn't mention his can be bought at Joann's Fabrics? What's the difference? The design of the eagle? Not being a smart ass, just trying to learn so I don't have to ask in the future. I don' think it's military, I was just more curious about possible age.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/285285-verify-kepi-button.html

I mean, you gave this guy a nice description. You told me that there are many threads about this and I can buy it at Joann's Fabrics. Quite a difference in descriptions. Sorry if I annoyed you by asking a question you have already answered.


BigCypressHunter wrote:
> I originally thought one civilian tinback button got mixed in because the US Navy
> wouldn't use anything that rusts...correct?

Correct, IF the "ironback" button was to be used on cloth -- which would be stained by rust from the ironback every time the clothing got washed. But a kepi (hat) chinstrap button is on the end of the leather strap ...which would not show rust-staining.

> OK back to the question. I think this 13mm floppy shank tinback is actually military.
> I think its a Federal Navy Kepi hat button. Can anybody verify please?
> Im having trouble posting true color. The button is brass, the back is tin plated.

I'm sure you already know the following info. I'm posting it for other forum-readers, who may not already know it. The back of ALL "ironback" buttons was tin-plated iron, to prevent rusting, at least until the very thin tin plating wore off from usage. The use of iron for the back was a manufacturer's cost-saving tactic, because iron has always been much cheaper than brass.

The manufacture of "ironback" buttons dates all the way from the 1830s to the modernday era. Without a backmark, they are almost impossible to accurately date. Therefore, to time-date an ironback button, we must rely on examining the "details" of the button's front.

Your button's brass front has the eagle-standing-on-a-HORIZONTAL-anchor emblem, which was used by the US Navy from the late-1840s to 1941. (In 1941, the eagle's head was changed from facing toward ITS left to facing toward ITS right.) On your button, the eagle's chest and legs are very "puffed-out" -- a characteristic which is usually seen on civilian "Fashion" imitations of the actual Navy button. Also, the tops of the eagle's wings are quite "rounded" -- again a characteristic typically seen on civilian-usage imitations. Also, the emblem is "weak" (almost blurry) instead of sharply-detailed. Lastly, your button's brass face does not seem to show any sign of ever having been gold-gilted -- which is very unusual for actual US Navy buttons.

Now, all of that having been said... at 13 millimeters, its size is correct for a kepi-strap button. So, despite all indications to the contrary, it COULD have been a Military-usage button.

In summarry: The uncertainty about its time-period and military-or-non-military use is what keeps this button from having "significant" value. As I said in a previous reply, collectors of Historical Military buttons are reluctant to pay a "significant" amount of money for a button they cannot feel at least 90% CERTAIN is from the Historical time-period they collect.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

CousinEddie wrote:
> I mean, you gave this guy a nice description. You told me that there
> are many threads about this and I can buy it at Joann's Fabrics.
> Quite a difference in descriptions. Sorry if I annoyed you by
> asking a question you have already answered.

I wasn't annoyed. The only reason I did not give you an "extensive" reply is that at nearly midnight (11:47PM), I was too tired to type out a long-winded explanation like I'd posted in a previous discussion.

My statement that Fashion-clothing imitation US Navy buttons have been discussed here many times was intended ONLY to give you assurance that my reply about your button was not merely my own opinion, but instead, is repetition of the "group" opinion of the button-ID experts in this forum.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I JUST saw another thread that was posted last year with a button that is similar. My button is the same size and has the same back as the other button in the link.

Cannonball Guy...You didn't mention his can be bought at Joann's Fabrics? What's the difference? The design of the eagle? Not being a smart ass, just trying to learn so I don't have to ask in the future. I don' think it's military, I was just more curious about possible age.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/285285-verify-kepi-button.html

I mean, you gave this guy a nice description. You told me that there are many threads about this and I can buy it at Joann's Fabrics. Quite a difference in descriptions. Sorry if I annoyed you by asking a question you have already answered.


BigCypressHunter wrote:
> I originally thought one civilian tinback button got mixed in because the US Navy
> wouldn't use anything that rusts...correct?

Correct, IF the "ironback" button was to be used on cloth -- which would be stained by rust from the ironback every time the clothing got washed. But a kepi (hat) chinstrap button is on the end of the leather strap ...which would not show rust-staining.

> OK back to the question. I think this 13mm floppy shank tinback is actually military.
> I think its a Federal Navy Kepi hat button. Can anybody verify please?
> Im having trouble posting true color. The button is brass, the back is tin plated.

I'm sure you already know the following info. I'm posting it for other forum-readers, who may not already know it. The back of ALL "ironback" buttons was tin-plated iron, to prevent rusting, at least until the very thin tin plating wore off from usage. The use of iron for the back was a manufacturer's cost-saving tactic, because iron has always been much cheaper than brass.

The manufacture of "ironback" buttons dates all the way from the 1830s to the modernday era. Without a backmark, they are almost impossible to accurately date. Therefore, to time-date an ironback button, we must rely on examining the "details" of the button's front.

Your button's brass front has the eagle-standing-on-a-HORIZONTAL-anchor emblem, which was used by the US Navy from the late-1840s to 1941. (In 1941, the eagle's head was changed from facing toward ITS left to facing toward ITS right.) On your button, the eagle's chest and legs are very "puffed-out" -- a characteristic which is usually seen on civilian "Fashion" imitations of the actual Navy button. Also, the tops of the eagle's wings are quite "rounded" -- again a characteristic typically seen on civilian-usage imitations. Also, the emblem is "weak" (almost blurry) instead of sharply-detailed. Lastly, your button's brass face does not seem to show any sign of ever having been gold-gilted -- which is very unusual for actual US Navy buttons.

Now, all of that having been said... at 13 millimeters, its size is correct for a kepi-strap button. So, despite all indications to the contrary, it COULD have been a Military-usage button.

In summarry: The uncertainty about its time-period and military-or-non-military use is what keeps this button from having "significant" value. As I said in a previous reply, collectors of Historical Military buttons are reluctant to pay a "significant" amount of money for a button they cannot feel at least 90% CERTAIN is from the Historical time-period they collect.

Your button and my possible kepi hat button are not the same. It has a different anchor. There is absolutely no doubt that your button is a fashion button. Its possible to be 50 years old or older but its a civilian button. CBG is correct, the button is still made today.

My "kepi button" (bottom pic)is most likely a non-military replacement.

Your button is purely fashion with a Navy motiff. I found a similar fashion button (top pic) under my clothesline in my backyard.