Civil War Rimfire?

[RustyRelics]

I found this in my front yard at about 10 inches deep (I barely heard it) a few days ago. It is .44 Cal. for sure, and is a rimfire, as can be seen my a small square =tap on the outer rim and the lack of a center fire primer. I believe it is made of copper. There is no head stamp which is confusing me as to how old it is. I had Civil War guerrilla activity in my front yard which makes me believe it is from one of those guys. My .44 Henry bullet found in VA fits tight, but well inside. There were no houses here until 1932, if that helps any.




From what I've been able to find on the "net", unmarked .44 Henry Rimfires were the "early" ones? I'm not sure, because no one seems to word it the right way that can give me a yes or no answer.

 

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[smokeythecat]

I agree with your assessment. I found some .38's in a CW home site, what would have been right outside the house. Rimfires with no base markings are generally CW period, sometimes a little later.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

RustyRelics, there is actually more than just one model of rimfire .44 cartridge. So, we need you to use a digital caliper to precisely measure your casing's length, in hundredths-of-an-inch. Please post that info here when you get it.

Meanwhile:
The (fired) presumably .44-caliber bullet in your photo next to the .44 casing is not a Henry bullet -- which has no body-grooves. It appears to be a civil war .44 Ballard "New Model" Rifle/Carbine bullet. So, if you dug the bullet at the same location where you found the copper casing, that suggests it is a Ballard casing.

 

[RustyRelics]

RustyRelics, there is actually more than just one model of rimfire .44 cartridge. So, we need you to use a digital caliper to precisely measure your casing's length, in hundredths-of-an-inch. Please post that info here when you get it.

Meanwhile:
The (fired) presumably .44-caliber bullet in your photo next to the .44 casing is not a Henry bullet -- which has no body-grooves. It appears to be a civil war .44 Ballard "New Model" Rifle/Carbine bullet. So, if you dug the bullet at the same location where you found the copper casing, that suggests it is a Ballard casing.

I was hoping you'd see this.

I do not have digital calipers, but I suppose I'll have to spring for one. The bullet was found in Virginia by a friend, and I remembered I had it when I found this casing.

 

[RustyRelics]

From my measurements, the casing is 24mm long, 15mm wide (that is the rim) and 13mm wide (at the mouth, not including the rim.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The measurements you reported absolutely exclude a .44 Henry, .44 Ballard, and .42 Wesson casing.

To help you, I used my digital caliper to measure an excavated civil war (some later ones exist) .44 Henry non-marked casing.
Casing is .85"-long, rim is .52 wide, and mouth's exterior is .44-inch.

Precise measurements for an excavated civil war .42 Wesson Rifle rimfire casing:
Casing is .94"-long, rim is .505 wide, and mouth's exterior is .445-inch.

You reported your casing's NON-CALIPER measurements are:
Length 24mm (.94-inch)
Rim 15mm (.59-inch)
Mouth 13mm (.511-inch).

Your casing's mouth diameter indicates it was made to hold a .50-caliber bullet. The only .50 metallic-cartridge bullet in the various civil war bullet books which matches the shape of yours is a .50 Warner Rifle bullet. See bullet #83 in the "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Jim & Dean Thomas. It says the .50 Warner casing's diameter is .515, which is just a few thousandths-inch larger than what you report for your casing. So, I believe that is its correct ID.

If there is ever a "next time" you want to get a relic correctly identified, PUH-LEEZE provide measurements in inches, like I requested. If you cannot be bothered to do that, I will not bother to reply.

 

[RustyRelics]

The measurements you reported absolutely exclude a .44 Henry, .44 Ballard, and .42 Wesson casing.

To help you, I used my digital caliper to measure an excavated civil war (some later ones exist) .44 Henry non-marked casing.
Casing is .85"-long, rim is .52 wide, and mouth's exterior is .44-inch.

Precise measurements for an excavated civil war .42 Wesson Rifle rimfire casing:
Casing is .94"-long, rim is .505 wide, and mouth's exterior is .445-inch.

You reported your casing's NON-CALIPER measurements are:
Length 24mm (.94-inch)
Rim 15mm (.59-inch)
Mouth 13mm (.511-inch).

Your casing's mouth diameter indicates it was made to hold a .50-caliber bullet. The only .50 metallic-cartridge bullet in the various civil war bullet books which matches the shape of yours is a .50 Warner Rifle bullet. See bullet #83 in the "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Jim & Dean Thomas. It says the .50 Warner casing's diameter is .515, which is just a few thousandths-inch larger than what you report for your casing. So, I believe that is its correct ID.

If there is ever a "next time" you want to get a relic correctly identified, PUH-LEEZE provide measurements in inches, like I requested. If you cannot be bothered to do that, I will not bother to reply.

My bad. Won't happen again.

Let me get some actual calipers, because I just took a .50 cal. bullet and it doesn't even come close to being able to fit into the opening of the casing. It's no bigger than a .45 cal. complete bullet that I have. I got the measurements by taking a ruler and some clamps, and measured the space in between the clamps.

 

[RustyRelics]

I just bought some calipers. We should know more about this in a few days.

 

[villagenut]

I have a site from the 1860s where a lot of target practice was done and all but a few have headstamps and I have dug lots of them there...mainly .32 cal. Early rimfires had no headstamp.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Thank you for that response, and action.

For any reader here who doesn't already know:
The bullet-casing's finder reported the casing's mouth diameter is 13mm, which as I noted, converts to .511-inch. When I read it, I thought that was strange, and probably seriously incorrect, just by judging from looking at the "proportions" of the casing as shown in the photo. That kind of error is why we relic-ID helpers insist that the relic's finder (or poster) give us measurements made by a caliper, in hundredths-of-an-inch. Incorrect measurements send us off on a futile wild-goose chase down a wrong road.

A very good digital caliper, made of stainless steel (not el-cheapo plastic) can be bought at Harbor Freight Tools stores and website for about $19. It is essential for precisely measuring pre-20th-Century coins, military belt-buckles and uniform buttons, etc, for CORRECT identification -- not just bullets. Trust me, the $19 digital caliper will pay for itself, many times.

 

[RustyRelics]

Thank you for that response, and action.

For any reader here who doesn't already know:
The bullet-casing's finder reported the casing's mouth diameter is 13mm, which as I noted, converts to .511-inch. When I read it, I thought that was strange, and probably seriously incorrect, just by judging from looking at the "proportions" of the casing as shown in the photo. That kind of error is why we relic-ID helpers insist that the relic's finder (or poster) give us measurements made by a caliper, in hundredths-of-an-inch. Incorrect measurements send us off on a futile wild-goose chase down a wrong road.

A very good digital caliper, made of stainless steel (not el-cheapo plastic) can be bought at Harbor Freight Tools stores and website for about $19. It is essential for precisely measuring pre-20th-Century coins, military belt-buckles and uniform buttons, etc, for CORRECT identification -- not just bullets. Trust me, the $19 digital caliper will pay for itself, many times.

That's the one I just bought, but it's getting shipped to my house.

 

[RustyRelics]

These are the measurements that I got in inches.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

RustyRelics, thank you for providing those well-focused closeup photos showing the cartridge-casing in the jaws of a digital caliper, with precise measurement numbers visible. Your casing's length and body-diameter match most closely with a civil war .44 Henry Rifle bullet's casing.

And THAT makes me realize I should have requested much sooner that you provide a closeup photo showing the casing's flat base... so I could examine it for a conclusively-identifying firing pin mark. The .44 Henry was one of very-very few rifles which had a "double" firing pin. The Henry double-pin makes two small rectangular flat marks directly opposite from each other on the edges of the casing's base.

Your casing MIGHT be an unfired one -- because we know soldiers would sometimes remove the bullet from a cartridge in order to use the gunpowder to start a campfire when the only firewood available was wet from a recent rain. But of course, the great majority of casings we dig are empty due to firing... and thus should show a firing pin mark.

 

[releventchair]

RustyRelics, thank you for providing those well-focused closeup photos showing the cartridge-casing in the jaws of a digital caliper, with precise measurement numbers visible. Your casing's length and body-diameter match most closely with a civil war .44 Henry Rifle bullet's casing.

And THAT makes me realize I should have requested much sooner that you provide a closeup photo showing the casing's flat base... so I could examine it for a conclusively-identifying firing pin mark. The .44 Henry was one of very-very few rifles which had a "double" firing pin. The Henry double-pin makes two small rectangular flat marks directly opposite from each other on the edges of the casing's base.

Your casing MIGHT be an unfired one -- because we know soldiers would sometimes remove the bullet from a cartridge in order to use the gunpowder to start a campfire when the only firewood available was wet from a recent rain. But of course, the great majority of casings we dig are empty due to firing... and thus should show a firing pin mark.

Rusty mentions a single strike on the outer rim.

I thought priming compound was distributed across the entire bottom of a case evenly.
A gunsmith when I was showing him strikes on far outer edge , said that was fine as crushing the outer rim worked in conjunction with the compound under the rim.
Good to know if we are repriming rimfire brass with the wetted tips of strike anywhere matches... Just have to rotate former pin strike areas to avoid hitting an area priming compound does not fit in.

There is at least one commercial offering for .22 reloading.
Now I'm wondering if factory priming is so wet that brass can be spun to load priming into the area of rimes edges , or just flows well...

 

[RustyRelics]

I'm about to head into town, but I will gladly take a pic of the base when I get back. There is just a single pin mark, indicating it has been fired before.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Releventchair wrote:
> There is at least one commercial offering for .22 reloading.
> Now I'm wondering if factory priming is so wet that brass can be spun to load priming into the area of rimes edges , or just flows well...

I've read (perhaps at the Cartridge Collector's Exchange website) that at least "some" civil war rimfire casings were produced by using spinning to concentrate the liquid-state Fulminate primer into the casing's base-rim. Spencer casings is the one in particular that I recall.

 

[releventchair]

Releventchair wrote:
> There is at least one commercial offering for .22 reloading.
> Now I'm wondering if factory priming is so wet that brass can be spun to load priming into the area of rimes edges , or just flows well...

I've read (perhaps at the Cartridge Collector's Exchange website) that at least "some" civil war rimfire casings were produced by using spinning to concentrate the liquid-state Fulminate primer into the casing's base-rim. Spencer casings is the one in particular that I recall.

Thank you for sharing that.
Yet another reminder that technology was alive and well back then.
Must have been interesting equipment engineering.