Civil War relic thief engaged in heartbreaking destruction

[pete3370]

Civil War relic thief engaged in 'heartbreaking' destruction

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U.S. News - Civil War relic thief engaged in 'heartbreaking' destruction

 

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[maipenrai]

Other that breaking the law, did he change history? What if the archies had every bullet that was fired during the civil war, every buckle, every button, would it change the history, maybe even the outcome of the war? There are just some groups of people that want to control everything, have every bullet, every arrow head, and put it all in the basement of a museum. Dont the museums have enough bullets already?

 

[2screwed]

Other that breaking the law, did he change history? What if the archies had every bullet that was fired during the civil war, every buckle, every button, would it change the history, maybe even the outcome of the war? There are just some groups of people that want to control everything, have every bullet, every arrow head, and put it all in the basement of a museum. Dont the museums have enough bullets already?

He was doing it on a National Battlefield! No it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the Civil War, but its guys like this that give the entire hobby another black eye, the opposition more ammunition to use against us, and help us lose the war we are fighting to keep our hobby alive.
The location of these objects on a battlefield can help tell the story of a battle. What units were where. troop movements etc...
While i don't agree with a lot that is said in this article, no one in their right mind could possibly think this persons actions were OK. The general public reading this article is going to have an "Oh my god! We have to stop these people!" reaction. And that isn't good for any of us.

 

[CSA2K]

This fool broke the law and will get his just deserts but PLEEEEEEEEEEASE.. "heartbreaking destruction of American history" it is not! These relics would never have seen the light of day otherwise. The DIV in Virginia (held annually on PRIVATE land) has been described as "the wholesale destruction of American history" by worthless bureaucrats and pompous academics and recently The Huffington Post <shuddering> called the current "digging" shows on TV the glorification of LOOTING.

I have been relic hunting in VA since I was a child and have documented every find.. from the rare to the mundane. It pains me to see relics for sale with the "provenance unknown" tag but such is life. Throughout history private benefactors.. not government agencies.. have filled the great museums of the world. Most, art or otherwise, came from private collections of questionable origin. The point is.. the one that bureaucrats cannot see and academics refuse to acknowledge.. they WERE collected and consequently preserved, not left to deteriorate in the ground as in the case of Civil War relics (or in the basements of the NPS.. Gettysburg museum case in point).

The State sees nothing but lost tax revenue in private recoveries and responds like the paranoid clod it is. Academics believe those lacking private offices, masters degrees, and Twitter accounts unworthy of beholding such treasure without a 1/4" of plate glass in between and a tour guide.

 

[CSA2K]

And the contention of 2screwed and the article that "The location of these objects on a battlefield can help tell the story of a battle" is totally false in regards to this war. Archaeologists themselves will admit that battlefield recoveries are ambiguous at best and often times misleading. Both sides captured and utilized each other's war materiel. Confederates were notorious for stripping battlefields of useful materiel even going so far as to disrobe dead Union soldiers. A dropped three-ringer here or a Confederate button there tells nothing. Positions changed hands multiple times. Multiple battles were fought on the same ground. As in all wars throughout history battlefield souvenirs were collected by both sides and carried to all quarters. This was a modern war not the Trojan War. Volumes exist documenting precise locations of troops, movements etc. We don't need any want-to-be Heinrich Schliemanns guessing what happened. Relics should be recovered and displayed because people like to look at them. My god its that simple.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

2screwed, when you said "no one in their right mind could possibly think this person's actions were OK," you were far more correct than you realize. I was present at the Federal Court trial of that "civil war relic thief." He is definitely not in his right mind. He is a semi-recovered alcoholic, under psychiatric treatment for severe depression and anxiety-disorder, an unemployed hermit/loner, with no computer, no Internet, and not a member of any relic-hunting-hunting club. Prison-time was not warranted in his case. Prison-time was not needed to stop him from ever again digging on National Park Service land. The loss of his only metal-detector, and loss of all of his relics, the Federal Felony conviction, and the $7,000 "Restitution Fine" are sufficent enough to drive the don't-do-it message into his pickled brain.

Also, contrary to the Federal Prosecutor's claim, the prison-term sentence was not "needed as a public lesson" to stop anybody who is in their right mind from digging on Federal Property. In the past 10 years, there have already been plenty enough cases of relic-diggers being sent to Federal Prison to get the don't-do-it message spread far-&-wide among the sane relic-hunting community.

Unfortunately, the newspaper-reports did not mention any of the information in this post, even though it was clearly stated at the brain-damaged digger's Federal Sentencing trial. So, you're right, the newspaper-reports will just inflame the public against all relic-hunters.

 

[John A. Morrow]

I've concluded that "government" is far more guilty of destroying "history" than the random renegade digger.
The failure of (government)zoning laws has reduced an incredible number of sites to housing sprawl,parking lots,etc.
Numerous Civil War battle flags,for instance, moulder away in museums,never seeing the light of day,because government funds are not earmarked for their preservation.I've concluded that government museums should auction off items to private hands who have the funds and wish to preserve such neglected items.At least they would survive.Private ownership will always prove to be a better custodian than bureaucrats(and the employed government thieves who so often quietly sell off valuable historical items in their charge).I could tell some horror stories concerning a number of museums that have been pillaged by (government)"curators".
Anything retrieved from the ground is at least saved,since we are only temporary custodians of whatever(we)find.
This in no way is a defense of digging preserved ground;but I've come 180 degrees about my initial ideas that historical items need to always be placed in "museums"under state or Federal government care.
Besides;the "government" is not the place to go to in regards to identification of relics.All the published references are by private individuals.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[Goodyguy]

If the Archies are so outraged then why aren't they out there digging? I'll tell you why, it's because they are waiting on grants to pay them to dig.
The Archies don't have any more right to dig the relics than you or me. But since they have a diploma they think they own history.

History belongs to all of us not just those who use our tax dollars to fund their passion.
I would much rather see the relics in the hands of those who do the research and recovery on their own dime who enjoy having their own collection or sell to other parties for their personal enjoyment rather than to know that they are stored in some museum basement where no one can enjoy them.

Yep it's heartbreaking alright and it makes me sick to see how the so called intellectual community believes they have more right to history than the common man.

I say the Archies need to spend more time in the field and less time on their soapbox if they are so worried that amateurs are going to get all the good stuff.

Of course if the Archies only gripe is that the relics aren't being properly cataloged, then I see no reason why a compromise couldn't be implemented such as the way it's done in Europe.

GG~

 

[John A. Morrow]

If the Archies are so outraged then why in H3!! aren't they out there digging? I'll tell you why, it's because they are waiting on grants to pay them to dig.
The Archies don't have any more right to dig the relics than you or me. But since they have a diploma they think they own history.

History belongs to all of us not just those who use our tax dollars to fund their passion.
I would much rather see the relics in the hands of those who do the research and recovery on their own dime who enjoy having their own collection or sell to other parties for their personal enjoyment rather than to know that they are stored in some museum basement where no one can enjoy them.

Yep it's heartbreaking alright and it makes me sick to see how the so called intellectual community believes they have more right to history than the common man.

I say the Archies need to spend more time in the field and less time on their soapbox if they are so worried that amateurs are going to get all the good stuff.

Of course if the Archies only gripe is that the relics aren't being properly cataloged, then I see no reason why a compromise couldn't be implemented such as the way it's done in Europe.

GG~

Reminds me of the time(1970's)that an archaeologist called me long distance-asked if I'd i.d. some Revolutionary War items dug on a very prominent site in S.C.
Told him I'd be happy to have a look.All the items were characteristic debris,balls & buttons, and I was a little puzzled why the archaeologist was so unfamiliar with what he had.I gently asked him about his background and it turned out he was an "expert" concerning the Hopi Indian cultures of the American S.W.!
And here he was conducting an important dig in S.C. with absolutely no knowledge of Revolutionary War buttons,etc.(I loaned him a copy of my "Albert's",the best reference at that time).
(He was a genuinely nice guy but just uninformed so I won't mention the site.)