Civil war or Modern?

[parsonwalker]

I thought this small brass buckle was modern. My buddy thinks CW. Anybody got an educated opinion? Here's the provenance - found on Confederate side of a small Virginia battlefield. Very little hand-to-hand here . . . but a ton of artillery was poured into this place. Frags everywhere. Schinkle, Hodgkis, round balls (24# and 12#) (sp on the artillery).

The buckle is brass with the right patina for 150 years, but the leather (While very old and brittle) looks too good to be that old. I've found leather still clinging to rivets, but again . . .

Found at about 3", just below the debris layer in a mixture of sand and clay. Anybody recognize this shape as something identifiable to the period? Just need to know if it goes in the junk heap or the display case!

I will also post in the "What is it?" forum, but this isn't so much a "what" as a "when"?

 

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[Colonial_New_England]

The buckle definitely looks to have some age - that is not a modern design. Whether it is actually CW would take a specialist's knowledge. As far as intact leather, I have found leather in many old buckles, mostly from horse tack, dating back 150-200 years. All depends on the soil conditions, and if this was in partially sandy soil as you say, which would create good drainage, I don't think it would be unreasonable to find period leather pieces from the CW era. I'll be interested to read what others think about the buckle - nice looking piece!

 

[parsonwalker]

The buckle definitely looks to have some age - that is not a modern design. Whether it is actually CW would take a specialist's knowledge. As far as intact leather, I have found leather in many old buckles, mostly from horse tack, dating back 150-200 years. All depends on the soil conditions, and if this was in partially sandy soil as you say, which would create good drainage, I don't think it would be unreasonable to find period leather pieces from the CW era. I'll be interested to read what others think about the buckle - nice looking piece!

Thanks Colonial. I should have added that the buckle is pretty thin. Ie: Not thick enough to take a lot of strain (Like horse tack). Probably supported something lighter weight. (My buddy suggested binocs since so much artillery, but it's easy to "imagine".) I also know that in the CW (More so in Confederate ranks) a lot of stuff was brought from home and not military issue. So a good "guess" is probably all I can hope for.

 

[Colonial_New_England]

I also know that in the CW (More so in Confederate ranks) a lot of stuff was brought from home and not military issue. So a good "guess" is probably all I can hope for.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... You may never know definitively unless someone else weighs in who recognizes the specific buckle design. As far as horse tack goes, there are pieces such as bridle buckles that were thinner and didn't carry as much weight... This seems like a very specific design - I bet with some detective work you can get it figured out. Can't remember where I saw it, but I know someone who was pulling PDF's of old turn-of-the-century Sears & Roebuck catalogs which still carried a lot of horse tack, etc at that time, and using the items for sale in the catalog to ID finds... If you are hot to trot on figuring this one out, you might try something similar. Cheers!

 

[lab rat]

Don't overlook the fact that the buckle might have been for something like a saddle bag closure. I'm not that familiar w/ Civil War stuff, being on the West Coast, but this kind of buckle seems familiar somehow. Pony Express mail pouch?

 

[Southern_Digger]

Generally, late 1800's - early 1900's buckles, which could be the only other explanation, will have a patent date. If pin is square-ish, and no patent date, it is period. I found same buckle in 1850's Seminole War sites, Pin is almost square, but rounded on corners. Also, they went on packs or cartridge boxes, and smaller ones-for chinstraps.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Looks like a Victorian style horse related buckle.. from what era of the Victorian period - i would say it could be between 1860s and 1880s.. But like Southerdigger was saying about the patent date, if there is one then it would date to the later part of the Victorian period to early 20th c. it could also be early 20th c. even without no patent date.. Isn't it kewl how leather like that can basically petrify on a piece like that.. I've dug many CW artifacts like buttons and rivets and knapsack stuff that still had small amount of leather on them - few years back when i was sifting thru a hut-site i found a 10 inch piece of black leather that basically petrified it-self in the soil and sometimes i will come across small small pieces...

Throw this in the What Is It section..

 

[parsonwalker]

Thanks everybody for the educated opinions! Hut - yep, the leather is the coolest part about it. I've never found BIG leather. However, I have an eagle A with tons of guilt that has a quarter size patch of uniform cloth on it in nearly perfect condition. Leather and cloth adds so much character to a piece. Thanks again!

 

[cedar6712]

Generally, late 1800's - early 1900's buckles, which could be the only other explanation, will have a patent date. If pin is square-ish, and no patent date, it is period. I found same buckle in 1850's Seminole War sites, Pin is almost square, but rounded on corners. Also, they went on packs or cartridge boxes, and smaller ones-for chinstraps.

I've dug several suspender buckles out of civil war camps (with no modern trash at all) with early patent dates. Most I've found have 1850 or 1852 patent dates.