Civil war Carbine bullets and a couple beat up minnies. Looking for a little help.

[bonepicker]

Ended up digging a little civil war yesterday evening and this morning.
Just got a new site, and just beginning to scout it.

I ended up with 3 bullets and a round ball yesterday, and 3 more bullets this morning.
4 of the bullets have solid bases and measure .55 -.56" x .79 -.80" on my cheap calipers. One looks fired, and the other 3 look dropped.
I was thinking these might be sharps, but they are much shorter and stubby than my other sharps from a different site. Any ideas??

The other 2 look to be fired 3-ringer minnies. One is pretty flattened at the tip, and the other one is flattened on one side.
Was wondering mostly about the one that has a flat spot on the side. Could this be plow damage?, melted?, or from being fired?
It also has a nipple on the top. It kind of looks like the nipple is raised, or could this have been done from a ram-rod.

My buddy ended up with one nice dropped 3 ringer minnie, and a really toasted shield nickle.

Any help would be appreciated.

I just rechecked the best 3 and got an average of .55-.56" x .79 - .80"

Thanks

 

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[Rogue Relic Hunter]

nice collection of finds. i have the "civil war projectiles II with supplement" book at my house. if no one has answered, i can look them up later tonight or tomorrow when i am at home. CONGRATS!!!!!

 

[bonepicker]

nice collection of finds. i have the "civil war projectiles II with supplement" book at my house. if no one has answered, i can look them up later tonight or tomorrow when i am at home. CONGRATS!!!!!

Thanks RRH. I just rechecked my measurements from earlier and i guess i was a little off. Guess i was in a hurry to get this posted.
This time i checked the best 3 and got an average of .55-.56" x .79 - .80"
I have my suspicions, but was hoping to see what others say.
Thanks again.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Congratualtions on the nice CW finds!

 

[trapperart]

Congrats

 

[ucvrelics.com]

I'm glade you found the site. 2 of them a defiantly Burnsides and I see an 3 ringer, with the burnsides you are in the cav camp

 

[bonepicker]

Congratualtions on the nice CW finds!

Thanks Prof.

Congrats

Thanks Trapper.

I'm glade you found the site. 2 of them a defiantly Burnsides and I see an 3 ringer, with the burnsides you are in the cav camp

Thanks for your help UCV. I was thinking Burnsides too, but didnt want to be the first to say it.
Now i need to find one with the Brass still attached.

 

[Davers]

I'm 95% Sure other than the 3 ringers & round ball's your flat bottom bullets are 54 Burnside's.
Nice Haul my Friend.
&
Congratz on the new Site.
I need a new Site real Bad.

 

[relic nut]

Nice group of lead. Congrats

HH RN

 

[muerte33]

More great finds!
Hopefully this run will continue into 2017!
Great job!

 

[mspence]

Nice burnsides, the 3 ringer with the "nipple on top" is a nose cast 3 ringer.

 

[Carolina Tom]

Very well done BP.

Glad to see you on the goodies!

 

[weregolf]

I think .79-80 are mauser (fusil) bullets

 

[Appalachianman76]

Nice! Keep the finds coming!

 

[Davers]

Looking closer .

& Tho it's hard to tell from a picture , IMO You indeed have 4 Burnside Bullets with the 2ed one down having been fired .
The other 3 show powder damage, more so than the one with the Rifling.
& Also as mspence stated I'm Pretty sure your one nicer 3 ringer is Nose Cast at first I thought it may be damage from being dropped/Rammed but looking now it seems that was the place where the casting spur was cut off. 'Cool'

I have a tough time with measurements (being Public School raised) but I try to remember Muzzle loading Bullets ran Smaller --58 cal= .57 Bullet. & Breech Loaders ran a little larger .54 may be .55 .
Ill bet when I look back at your Measurement's the "Fired " one will be closer to .54.

I'm still learning all this Stuff more everyday.
P.S. A Shield Nickel ...I only got 2 Buff's & 1 'V' in all my digging time .
GD
Davers

 

[bonepicker]

I'm 95% Sure other than the 3 ringers & round ball's your flat bottom bullets are 54 Burnside's.
Nice Haul my Friend. & Congratz on the new Site.
I need a new Site real Bad.

Thanks for the help Davers. I was thinking a Burnside too. Page 28, Item 119 in the M&M Book looks like a pretty close match. I was unsure though. Ive never dug a burnside before, and im not the best at Id'ing bullets. I really hope i can find a cartridge, or a complete burnside intact with the brass cartridge.

Nice group of lead. Congrats
HH RN

Thanks Nut. I was hoping for more, but im still happy with what i got. And i scored a new variety i have yet to dig.

More great finds!
Hopefully this run will continue into 2017!
Great job!

Thanks Nick. Things are starting to look up for me. Was a good holiday weekend, especially since diggin the 1849-0 seated half-dime Friday.

Nice burnsides, the 3 ringer with the "nipple on top" is a nose cast 3 ringer.

Thanks for the info MS. Never heard of a nose cast. I will have to look that up. I wonder whats up with the appendage or teat inside the cavity of the nose cast 3-ringer.

Very well done BP.
Glad to see you on the goodies!

Thanks Tom. Things have been slow for me. Been pounding the old sites, scrounging for a good find here and there. Hopefully this new site will show some stellar results.

I think .79-80 are mauser (fusil) bullets

Thats interesting. I dont know much about Mauser.

Nice! Keep the finds coming!

THanks App. I hope to.!

 

[bonepicker]

Looking closer .

& Tho it's hard to tell from a picture , IMO You indeed have 4 Burnside Bullets with the 2ed one down having been fired .
The other 3 show powder damage, more so than the one with the Rifling.
& Also as mspence stated I'm Pretty sure your one nicer 3 ringer is Nose Cast at first I thought it may be damage from being dropped/Rammed but looking now it seems that was the place where the casting spur was cut off. 'Cool'

I have a tough time with measurements (being Public School raised) but I try to remember Muzzle loading Bullets ran Smaller --58 cal= .57 Bullet. & Breech Loaders ran a little larger .54 may be .55 .
Ill bet when I look back at your Measurement's the "Fired " one will be closer to .54.

I'm still learning all this Stuff more everyday.
P.S. A Shield Nickel ...I only got 2 Buff's & 1 'V' in all my digging time .
GD
Davers

Thanks for the follow up Dave. I thought one of those burnsides might have been fired. I was thinking those grooves on the one that has a dent on the nose could have come from when it was shot through the barrel. Im glad you noticed that too.
I thought the nipple on the 3 ringer looked strange. Almost raised a little. I didnt think it was a sprue. I just thought maybe they might have manufactured them like that for some particular reason that i was not aware of. So that raised spot is just a sprue that never got trimmed/removed? Did you notice the appendage/teat inside the cavity of the nose cast 3 ringer.? I thought that was strange, and which is why i thought that one might have been partially melted. Or maybe it came like that out of the mold.
Hey, i went to public school too. LOL.
I just checked the fired burnside and got .54 - .55. Of course my harbor Freight ten dollar calipers probably arent the most accurate.
I started out as a coinshooter, so ive dug alot of V-nicks and Buffs, but never a shield. Now id prefer digging relics. Although i was pretty excited about the 1849-0 half dime i dug Friday.
Saw this one at Sgt Rikers, and that is where i got the terms teat and appendage from.
http://sgtriker.com/images/pc12915.jpg

 

[Davers]

Thanks for the follow up Dave. I thought one of those burnsides might have been fired. I was thinking those grooves on the one that has a dent on the nose could have come from when it was shot through the barrel. Im glad you noticed that too.
I thought the nipple on the 3 ringer looked strange. Almost raised a little. I didnt think it was a sprue. I just thought maybe they might have manufactured them like that for some particular reason that i was not aware of. So that raised spot is just a sprue that never got trimmed/removed? Did you notice the appendage/teat inside the cavity of the nose cast 3 ringer.? I thought that was strange, and which is why i thought that one might have been partially melted. Or maybe it came like that out of the mold.
Hey, i went to public school too. LOL.
I just checked the fired burnside and got .54 - .55. Of course my harbor Freight ten dollar calipers probably arent the most accurate.
I started out as a coinshooter, so ive dug alot of V-nicks and Buffs, but never a shield. Now id prefer digging relics. Although i was pretty excited about the 1849-0 half dime i dug Friday.
Saw this one at Sgt Rikers, and that is where i got the terms teat and appendage from.
http://sgtriker.com/images/pc12915.jpg

Man u got me perplexed now.
As I said I'm still learning all this to so , Please don't take everything I say as Gospel , really it's my Opinion.
but I'm now up to 98% on the Burnside's .

Now I wish I could explain stuff better , I have always heard of the 3 ringers with the "Teat" in their Base called Georgia Teat Bases & have the point coming out of the bottom of the cavity , like the one in S .Rikers pic, but most I have seen are not that Pronounced , saying the teat or point in usually half as long as the one in the picture / down to a small Bump even.

I have only dug 3-5 of that style & their "Teats " are no where near as long as Mr Rikers.

Also on your bullet the 'Teat', Point etc, looks to come from the side & the base seems kinda 'Stepped'

Suppose it kinda depends on if it was cast at a Arsenal or say in a mold in the Field. & Do you think it was fired or damaged after it was dropped?

It kinda looks like a drop of Hot Lead fell into the Cavity Somehow. Cause there does not look to be a place that lead was lost on the inside of the Bullet.

Does the other ( cool looking) mushroom minnie have a similar Base?

Maybe a What is it or How was it post is in order . lol

Ill keep staring at your finds ....& hopefully come to a better Conclusion .

 

[bonepicker]

Man u got me perplexed now.
As I said I'm still learning all this to so , Please don't take everything I say as Gospel , really it's my Opinion.
but I'm now up to 98% on the Burnside's .

Now I wish I could explain stuff better , I have always heard of the 3 ringers with the "Teat" in their Base called Georgia Teat Bases & have the point coming out of the bottom of the cavity , like the one in S .Rikers pic, but most I have seen are not that Pronounced , saying the teat or point in usually half as long as the one in the picture / down to a small Bump even.

I have only dug 3-5 of that style & their "Teats " are no where near as long as Mr Rikers.

Also on your bullet the 'Teat', Point etc, looks to come from the side & the base seems kinda 'Stepped'

Suppose it kinda depends on if it was cast at a Arsenal or say in a mold in the Field. & Do you think it was fired or damaged after it was dropped?

It kinda looks like a drop of Hot Lead fell into the Cavity Somehow. Cause there does not look to be a place that lead was lost on the inside of the Bullet.

Does the other ( cool looking) mushroom minnie have a similar Base?

Maybe a What is it or How was it post is in order . lol

Ill keep staring at your finds ....& hopefully come to a better Conclusion .

The mushroomed minnie does not have an appendage or a teat. It actually has a smooth and deeper cavity.
Most of the bullets ive dug in the past were drops.

Im really not sure what to think about the nose cast 3-ringer. My experience with CW bullets is minimal. I really dont think the whole side could have flattened out like that from being fired and striking an object. It does look like some heat might have been applied to it to get it flat one one side. Perhaps they used the powder to start a fire, and the lead got partially melted.
I was just using the word teat to describe what i was seeing inside the cavity. I really thought that appendage looked strange. Maybe heat from a fire caused this. I really dont know. Guess i was wondering if anyone else had seen this before. Maybe some better pictures and another post in the what is it might help.
This has been interesting. Most bullets i dig are dropped 3 ringer minnies. Its kind of neat to dig something different. i.e. Burnsides, nose cast, etc.

 

[Rogue Relic Hunter]

i see you have much good help on IDing these. i cant wait to have time to read all the posts.

if it is still up in the air, maybe this weekend i can look them up. do u have a way to weigh them in grains? that helps also. def need caliber. this is a great book, just need the time to check into it.