✅ SOLVED Civil War bullet ID help please

[tokens70]

Hello people, I went down to the flea market this morning & took a gamble on buying this CW bullet for a five dollar bill. It looks like an uncommon bullet from what i can remember about CW bullets when i used to hunt primarily CW. Could use some help IDing & value if possible. There are about ten more there.

 

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[duggap]

I don't find an exact match in the McKee bullet book. It looks like a Gardner without the insert. But something tells me they may not be civilwar. I would like to see a closer look at the groves. The one picture seems to show crimp marks inside the grove. If that be the case they would definitely be post civilwar. If they are Gardners the value will depend somewhat on the calibre but probably around six to eight dollars each.

 

[tokens70]

Thanks for looking Duggap. I will post more pics, hopefully i can zero in on the area you need a better look at

 

[tokens70]

More pics

Not the best pics, but hopefully you can tell something with them

 

[fyrffytr1]

It looks like a Gardner variation. Nose cast. It is either a 54 or 58 caliber going by the penny comparison. My personal opinon is $5.00 is a little high. But, if you don't have one it is worth the price.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Please do NOT go buy any more of them for $5 ...or even $1. It is definitely a 20th-century Imitation of a Gardner minie-ball. Battlefield tourist souvenir shops have been selling these modern-made Imitation Gardners for decades.

The McKee-&-Mason book on civil war bullets ("Civil War Projectiles II: Small Arms & Field Artillery") contains a very serious error -- in actual fact, the Gardner minie-ball did not have a lead-cup insert in its base. Unfortunately, although that book has been reprinted many times, the incorect information about Gardner "insert base" minies has never been removed or corrected.

The McKee-&-Mason book shows one of the 20th-century Imitations, as bullet #294, mistakenly calling it a "Gardner without insert." Please note that it is in non-excavated condition. The book was originally written in the late-1960s, and at that time the authors did not know this minie is an Imitation. Please note that the one shown in the book is in non-excavated condition. That is because (being a 20th-century Imitation) the authors had never seen an excavated one, and the book's photo of it was made in the late-1960s, before fakers had figured out how to put false "dug lead" patina on Repro bullets.

The actual form of the civil war Gardner minie-ball was cast in a special mold, and then "crimped" in Mr. Gardner's patented catridge-assembly machine. That process was too complicated for the souvenir-makers to inexpensively reproduce, so they made the 20th-century Imitations with a simpler base. (By the way, it is correctly called an Imitation rather than a Reproduction, because Reproduction technically means an accurate copy of an Original.

Anybody here who has doubts about the accuracy of any of the information I've given you in this post can ask about it at the Civil War Projectiles forum, at the Bullet-&-Shell website. Civil War Projectiles Forum - Index

 

[tokens70]

Well i appreciate the replys guys It would be typical for them to be fake, this is why i hardly ever buy anything like this Guess i'll just stick to digging them myself Thanks again all

 

[tennessee digger]

I think Pete (cannonballguy) is exactly right. He knows what he is talking about on that bullet. Tennessee digger

 

[Monty]

It isn't that unusual to find an error in a reference book I have found out. I collect military bolt action rifles and have several reference books . Ever now and then I find an error, but so far they have sent me a note and said they would correct it in later editions. One of the editors wanted to argue, but on the forum I am a member of several other members jumped in and told them I was right. It's not that big a deal, but it might save someone from making a costly mistake. For instance, I love Swede Mausers, and the market is full of fake sniper models, that might sell for a thousand dollars or more when it is only worth about $300. Monty