Charlie Miller...

[Cubfan64]

This name keeps popping up over and over in relation to the Stone Maps and Latin Heart and yet he seems to be a bit of an enigma - who exactly was he? I've done some VERY cursory searches on at least 4 different "LDM" forums and found lots of conflicting information.

How bout for a change we all try to work together to nail down this person? Figuring out EXACTLY who he was (dates of birth and death, where he lived, what he did for a living, etc...) isn't going to help anyone find anything in the mountains, but it might help fill some holes in stories and flesh out the who's, why's and when's of the Stone Maps - especially considering the new information being released recently by Ryan.

I'm completely swamped at work right now, but I'm going to try to sit down tonight and attache some quotes from other forum discussions that have taken place about Charlie Miller and hope that everyone/anyone who has information about him is willing to help fill some of these holes. I can tell you one thing, not everyone who has posted about Charlie Miller in the past has the correct person because dates and times don't mesh.

Let's try HARD to keep the discussions civil and see if we as a "herd of cats" that we usually are can come together and nail down who this person is/was.

 

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[azdave35]

This name keeps popping up over and over in relation to the Stone Maps and Latin Heart and yet he seems to be a bit of an enigma - who exactly was he? I've done some VERY cursory searches on at least 4 different "LDM" forums and found lots of conflicting information.

How bout for a change we all try to work together to nail down this person? Figuring out EXACTLY who he was (dates of birth and death, where he lived, what he did for a living, etc...) isn't going to help anyone find anything in the mountains, but it might help fill some holes in stories and flesh out the who's, why's and when's of the Stone Maps - especially considering the new information being released recently by Ryan.

I'm completely swamped at work right now, but I'm going to try to sit down tonight and attache some quotes from other forum discussions that have taken place about Charlie Miller and hope that everyone/anyone who has information about him is willing to help fill some of these holes. I can tell you one thing, not everyone who has posted about Charlie Miller in the past has the correct person because dates and times don't mesh.

Let's try HARD to keep the discussions civil and see if we as a "herd of cats" that we usually are can come together and nail down who this person is/was.

try asking some of the guys that were around back then...tom k....clay w. ron f...louie ruiz

 

[deducer]

Paul,

I'm in. I'll do some digging of my own-

Here's what I mentioned on the other site:

Kollenborn said that Miller was a close associate of Roy Bradford, and dates back to the early 1950's. He lived in Phoenix near 48th Street and Thomas Road, on either Brill or Culver Streets.

One tip I did get from a source that I cannot disclose, is that Miller was living in a trailer park not far from Al Reser's house, with whom he had been good friends since the 1950's. Charlie Miller was not his real name, but was at least one of two or three aliases he used, but that name did exist on his driver's license. If you are able to gain access to Al Reser's taped interviews, there might be more information regarding Charlie Miller.

I am not sure where exactly Al Reser lived, but if we could find that, we could track down the trailer park that Miller lived in circa 1990-2000.

 

[Cubfan64]

try asking some of the guys that were around back then...tom k....clay w. ron f...louie ruiz

Dave, that was my first thought as well (plus adding Greg Davis to the mix). Only problem for me is that other than recognizing all of the men you mentioned and me saying hello at the Rendezvous, I doubt any of them would recognize me walking down the street much less respond to a request for information - . I'll give it a shot anyways and post here if I get any information, but if any of you are in a position to talk to Tom, Louie, Clay. Ron or anyone else who may have known Charlie Miller when he was alive and involved with the Superstition Mountains in person, that would probably be far more efficient. First hand accounts would clearly be the best we could get on who he was.

 

[azdave35]

Dave, that was my first thought as well (plus adding Greg Davis to the mix). Only problem for me is that other than recognizing all of the men you mentioned and me saying hello at the Rendezvous, I doubt any of them would recognize me walking down the street much less respond to a request for information - . I'll give it a shot anyways and post here if I get any information, but if any of you are in a position to talk to Tom, Louie, Clay. Ron or anyone else who may have known Charlie Miller when he was alive and involved with the Superstition Mountains in person, that would probably be far more efficient. First hand accounts would clearly be the best we could get on who he was.

also matthew roberts knew al reiser......when he sees this he will chime in

 

[Old]

From Travis' manuscript he gives the following information regarding Charlie Miller.

..........Travis recounts a memory in 1958 where he and Miller are out in the mountains. He tells us Miller was past 70...... This makes a birth date of approximately 1877 to 1887 give or take.

.........Miller wore a big hat (type not given)

....... a native of Arizona........... this gives us reason to look in Arizona Territorial record for a possible birth record.

......hiked with, partnered with.....Rhodes Wilson for 20 years.

......had a bad leg.........

......had a vast knowledge of the Superstitions and particularly water sources.

If there are records in the 1990 and 2000s we are probably looking at a son of this Charlie Miller.

In retrospect and in further talks with Ryan it is entirely possible the photo Ryan posted is Charlie Miller.

I have photos of Rhodes Wilson as a young man. Will be glad to post if you have an interest.

 

[Cubfan64]

From Travis' manuscript he gives the following information regarding Charlie Miller.

..........Travis recounts a memory in 1958 where he and Miller are out in the mountains. He tells us Miller was past 70...... This makes a birth date of approximately 1877 to 1887 give or take.

.........Miller wore a big hat (type not given)

....... a native of Arizona........... this gives us reason to look in Arizona Territorial record for a possible birth record.

......hiked with, partnered with.....Rhodes Wilson for 20 years.

......had a bad leg.........

......had a vast knowledge of the Superstitions and particularly water sources.

If there are records in the 1990 and 2000s we are probably looking at a son of this Charlie Miller.

In retrospect and in further talks with Ryan it is entirely possible the photo Ryan posted is Charlie Miller.

I have photos of Rhodes Wilson as a young man. Will be glad to post if you have an interest.

If you don't mind posting photos of "Rhodes Wilson," maybe someone here would recognize or pass the photo along to some old timers who would remember him.

If the Charlie Wilson who was associated with Travis was in his 70's in 1958 then it seems improbable but not impossible that he was still living in the late 1990's after Al Reser passed away.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Deducer,

If he did use "Charlie Miller" on his driver's license, then the guy in the Maricopa Co. Records as "Charlie S. Miller" may indeed be our man...homestead claim in 1937, late payment of taxes in 40's...then drops out of reocrds...may have moved to Pinal Co., just like Carrol said...

 

[deducer]

Deducer,

If he did use "Charlie Miller" on his driver's license, then the guy in the Maricopa Co. Records as "Charlie S. Miller" may indeed be our man...homestead claim in 1937, late payment of taxes in 40's...then drops out of reocrds...may have moved to Pinal Co., just like Carrol said...

That's a good start.

Additionally, more information has come to light: Al Reser rented a house on Lawson Drive in Apache Junction just south of Broadway Road. Charlie Miller lived in a trailer court just a few blocks north at the corner of Lawson Drive and Broadway, on the North side of Broadway. If that Miller has a subsequent address at this location, then we can be pretty sure we have the correct Miller.

We may also be looking at someone with a rap sheet, outstanding charges, or someone who was on the run. That's the only reason I can think of for persistently using aliases.

 

[Cubfan64]

That's a good start.

Additionally, more information has come to light: Al Reser rented a house on Lawson Drive in Apache Junction just south of Broadway Road. Charlie Miller lived in a trailer court just a few blocks north at the corner of Lawson Drive and Broadway, on the North side of Broadway. If that Miller has a subsequent address at this location, then we can be pretty sure we have the correct Miller.

We may also be looking at someone with a rap sheet, outstanding charges, or someone who was on the run. That's the only reason I can think of for persistently using aliases.

Well if that's the case, trying to pin him down to a distinct person gets much tougher. What do you make of Travis describing him in 1958 as being in his 70's?

 

[azdave35]

Well if that's the case, trying to pin him down to a distinct person gets much tougher. What do you make of Travis describing him in 1958 as being in his 70's?

i have a friend that could probably answer your questions...but he doesn't have a cell phone or a permanent residence but he does stop by from time to time....next time he shows up i'll see if he can help

 

[Cubfan64]

Someone pointed me to a post made in 2010 on another forum that describes a little more about Charlie Miller - whether it's the right one or not who knows. What exactly are the rules for posting information from other forums? Am I not allowed to do it at all? Can I do it if I post a screen shot? Do I need to identify the author? Can I just rewrite the post and leave the author and source(s) out of it?

 

[Carl995]

Hmmm I can't upload for some reason....


i'll try again.....
nope this site wont upload pictures for me....
View attachment 1613268

ok it uploaded, thx t-net!

This is one of the many mentions of the Miller house.
Which is a house in the supers he was temp living from what I remember.
It was a modern rectangle house with flat roof, concrete along the front with a rocking chair & another chair,
in or close to goldfield area. we never went inside probably because he was taking care of the house for? I think the name was Blankenship. They would sit out front & talk for about an hour each time. I was very young at the time, as I grew into the teens, we never went there again. I'm sure that info is in my dad's notes somewhere. And of course there's a possibility that I have things mixed up, it was over 45 yrs ago.

 

[Old]

Here's Rhodes Wilson (young) picture,

Death Record follows

 

[Old]

Carroll, very interesting.

Can you give an approximate year you last saw him and approximately how old he was at the time?

thanks
Lyn

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Someone pointed me to a post made in 2010 on another forum that describes a little more about Charlie Miller - whether it's the right one or not who knows. What exactly are the rules for posting information from other forums? Am I not allowed to do it at all? Can I do it if I post a screen shot? Do I need to identify the author? Can I just rewrite the post and leave the author and source(s) out of it?

Just do it...I've done screenshots in the past and not gotten a talking to...if the mods have a problem, hopefully they will let us know before passing out "go directly to jail" cards...they probably want to know as much as we do

 

[Carl995]

Carroll, very interesting.

Can you give an approximate year you last saw him and approximately how old he was at the time?

thanks
Lyn

I'm 59 yrs old now, I was less than 12 yrs old at that time. I don't remember what he looked like. His house in Phoenix was just a few miles from us.
we lived at 68th street & Mcdowell.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Here's the gist of the Maricopa Co. Records:

View attachment 1613290

 

[Cubfan64]

Just do it...I've done screenshots in the past and not gotten a talking to...if the mods have a problem, hopefully they will let us know before passing out "go directly to jail" cards...they probably want to know as much as we do

Never mind - I just realized Deducer posted a synopsis in his post #3 here. Seems more and more likely to me that we have more than one Charlie Miller - maybe a Charlie Miller Jr? Not sure what information I can glean off the internet - this may be one of those digs that need to be done in person in AJ and the surrounding area.

Thanks everyone for your input though - hope we can nail down the right person eventually

 

[Carl995]

Never mind - I just realized Deducer posted a synopsis in his post #3 here. Seems more and more likely to me that we have more than one Charlie Miller - maybe a Charlie Miller Jr? Not sure what information I can glean off the internet - this may be one of those digs that need to be done in person in AJ and the surrounding area.

Thanks everyone for your input though - hope we can nail down the right person eventually

I only have about 20 pages of my dad stuff scanned out of a lot of boxes Full I removed from his file cabinets after he passed. Not even counting all the photos!
I kind of gave up as it looks like a long time to process.