Changing positions

[spartacus53]

Do you love debating and general discussions, then this post is for you.



Well, it will best suit you if you are a wishy-washy type. While discussing any issue and change your views midstream. I'm sure in any debate there are some good and bad points, so use this to your advantage. There is no use in trying to swim against a riptide, just go with the flow.



Is this nonsense.. No way.


If you are really into discussing any issue, you must be willing to absorb ideas from both sides. Some arguments will hold water, while others do not. ( I call the second the sieve debate)

If by chance you are stumped and cannot rely, resort to name calling, then everyone forgets what they were talking about to begin with and you can start over at some point.

This will buy you some time to research.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Do you love debating and general discussions, then this post is for you.



Well, it will best suit you if you are a wishy-washy type. While discussing any issue and change your views midstream. I'm sure in any debate there are some good and bad points, so use this to your advantage. There is no use in trying to swim against a riptide, just go with the flow.



Is this nonsense.. No way.


If you are really into discussing any issue, you must be willing to absorb ideas from both sides. Some arguments will hold water, while others do not. ( I call the second the sieve debate)

If by chance you are stumped and cannot rely, resort to name calling, then everyone forgets what they were talking about to begin with and you can start over at some point.

This will buy you some time to research.

STILL a ZEN question, tho...

 

[bill from lachine]

Spart,

Well thought out.....I usually just put on my joker hat and act foolish.....that usually helps to get everyone confused including me.....lol.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Rebel - KGC]

At FIRST, I thought this was gonna be about SEXUAL positions. NOW, I UNDERSTAND!

 

[releventchair]

At FIRST, I thought this was gonna be about SEXUAL positions. NOW, I UNDERSTAND!

More like mental gymnastics,or the game of twister but for the brain. A skill in changing sides to continue argument.
Dodge,parry,thrust,spin, al la daffy duck."ah haa! That's it,pronoun trouble!"

 

[Crispin]

When somebody proposes a point that makes me look silly I apply the follow tactics:

Deny, deny, deny, COUNTERATTACK!

 

[bill from lachine]

Crispin,

That'll work.....just slow down between the denial posts so I can play some appropriate music oklol.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[GrizLeeBear]

I never enter into a debate unless I have my facts straight and my mind made up. Being wishy/washy is for those in the audience. I'm right, they are wrong, get over it. In a debate you cannot win if you show signs of weakness.

 

[Crispin]

I never enter into a debate unless I have my facts straight and my mind made up. Being wishy/washy is for those in the audience. I'm right, they are wrong, get over it. In a debate you cannot win if you show signs of weakness.

Ummm, right...
If both parties enter into a discussion with that mindset then what is the point of discussing it to begin with?
Being wishy/washy is a far cry from being open-minded.
Swing lo, sweet chariot, coming fourth to carry me home...

Ps. If that was sarcasm and I missed it then I retract the previous statements.

 

[dieselram94]

If by chance you are stumped and cannot rely, resort to name calling, then everyone forgets what they were talking about to begin with and you can start over at some point.

This will buy you some time to research.

This is how the left debates......

 

[GrizLeeBear]

Ummm, right... If both parties enter into a discussion with that mindset then what is the point of discussing it to begin with? Being wishy/washy is a far cry from being open-minded. Ps. If that was sarcasm and I missed it then I retract the previous statements.

No sarcasm intended. What is the point of doing your research and forming an opinion on something important only to let the first person you talk to change your mind? I am a man of convictions. I am open minded until my mind is made up. I either care about a subject or I don't. In case you have not figured it out, I am more conservative than Atilla The Hun. I liked Reagan, but he was a bit middle of the road for me. I am educated, can read, research and think. I have opinions that matter to me. I earned them through many decades of life. There is no liberal on the planet that is going to change my stand on core issues. Obozo can debate me until the cows come home and he will walk away looking like a fool. But that never stops such people. I lost a debate in Junior High because I was not prepared. I was on the side against slavery, and I lost that debate. I learned a lesson that day. Do not debate me and expect to win, if I care about the subject. I will be prepared. I am not so much narrow minded as I am convinced. I write this only becasue you asked, not because I expect to change your mind. You have your belief system just as I have mine.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Crispin,

That'll work.....just slow down between the denial posts so I can play some appropriate music oklol.

Regards + HH

Bill

To build up suspense... like Alfred.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

If by chance you are stumped and cannot rely, resort to name calling, then everyone forgets what they were talking about to begin with and you can start over at some point.

This will buy you some time to research.

This is how the left debates......

From Muhammad the WISE; Dance like a BUTTERFLY... sting like a BEE!

 

[Crispin]

From Muhammad the WISE; Dance like a BUTTERFLY... sting like a BEE!

I think you mean FLOAT...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I think you mean FLOAT...

COULD be... heard BOTH! He ALWAYS danced around, you know...

 

[Crispin]

No sarcasm intended. What is the point of doing your research and forming an opinion on something important only to let the first person you talk to change your mind? I am a man of convictions. I am open minded until my mind is made up. I either care about a subject or I don't. In case you have not figured it out, I am more conservative than Atilla The Hun. I liked Reagan, but he was a bit middle of the road for me. I am educated, can read, research and think. I have opinions that matter to me. I earned them through many decades of life. There is no liberal on the planet that is going to change my stand on core issues. Obozo can debate me until the cows come home and he will walk away looking like a fool. But that never stops such people. I lost a debate in Junior High because I was not prepared. I was on the side against slavery, and I lost that debate. I learned a lesson that day. Do not debate me and expect to win, if I care about the subject. I will be prepared. I am not so much narrow minded as I am convinced. I write this only becasue you asked, not because I expect to change your mind. You have your belief system just as I have mine.

Since you responded with a serious reply, I will likewise. I fear that we are taking all the fun out of Spart's madness; but he has other threads he can entertain himself with.
1. I accept your challenge to "discuss" this issue. Let us not use the word "debate." I don't want you to feel locked into your views.
2. I propose to keep the premise to the very subject that is under discussion. Your previous post.
3. Feel free to start a thread on this subject or we can continue here.
4. Rules: All questions must have an attempt to be answered.
-No statistics, they are too easily manipulated.
-Facts can be challenged, but not vigorously.

Let us begin:

You ask the question: What is the point of doing your research and forming an opinion on something important only to let the first person you talk to change your mind?

Answer: Only doG is perfect. Research can be faked, statistics can be manipulated, and the winners write the history books. I agree that it is very important to do research and form an opinion for one's self. However, nobody in this world is perfect. Everybody reserves the right to change their opinion. If you refuse to bend then you assume that you are infalliable. Do you believe you are infalliable?

Fact: Slavery was once thought to be universally correct. There was "research" to show that men of color are inferior; there were many theories on supporting this. (Since you brought up slavery)

Question: What is your purpose in engaging in discussion if you are not open minded to changing your opinion?

Ball's in your court, lets play...

 

[GrizLeeBear]

What is doG?

Leave slavery out of it. That was an example of what happens when you show up to a classic style debate with no facts.

Some Stats can be manipulated. But that is always the position of the person who is losing the argument or does not like the validity of the stats.

I don't engage in discussions for the purpose of changing anyone's opinions. I try to help others when I can. My opinions are just that, mine. Yours are yours. I am not here to debate these subjects, but take any hot button issue such as gun control, abortion, save the whales or whatever, and most people have firm, fixed opinions. I never try to change their minds and won't allow them to try and change mine. What's the point? They have a right to their opinion, even if they are dead wrong. And, if I try to change their mind I am liable to lose a friend or wind up in a fight. There are facts in the world. You can know them and you can use them to form your own opinions. I have already formed mine. While you and I may agree on some things and disagree on others, I am not going to try to change your mind about our differences for two reasons as stated. First, you have a right to your opinions. Second it is unlikely that I will be able to change your mind. At that point things will digress to a level of inappropriate discord.

I have no idea whose thread this is now and I hope we have no hijacked it.

Your exact question asks why then do I engage in discussions? Well, I guess to be sociable, tell a few stories, listen to some stories, etc. Unlike some, I never try to sway opinions. I have no idea how old you are, but when you are my age you will know how fruitless that can be. If a group of people are sitting around discussing one of the aforesaid topics, I just walk away, friendships intact.

 

[onfire]

Since you responded with a serious reply, I will likewise. I fear that we are taking all the fun out of Spart's madness; but he has other threads he can entertain himself with.
1. I accept your challenge to "discuss" this issue. Let us not use the word "debate." I don't want you to feel locked into your views.
2. I propose to keep the premise to the very subject that is under discussion. Your previous post.
3. Feel free to start a thread on this subject or we can continue here.
4. Rules: All questions must have an attempt to be answered.
-No statistics, they are too easily manipulated.
-Facts can be challenged, but not vigorously.

Let us begin:

You ask the question: What is the point of doing your research and forming an opinion on something important only to let the first person you talk to change your mind?

Answer: Only doG is perfect. Research can be faked, statistics can be manipulated, and the winners write the history books. I agree that it is very important to do research and form an opinion for one's self. However, nobody in this world is perfect. Everybody reserves the right to change their opinion. If you refuse to bend then you assume that you are infalliable. Do you believe you are infalliable?

Fact: Slavery was once thought to be universally correct. There was "research" to show that men of color are inferior; there were many theories on supporting this. (Since you brought up slavery)

Question: What is your purpose in engaging in discussion if you are not open minded to changing your opinion?

Ball's in your court, lets play...

Wow crisp. griz hit a nerve? I read his as just telling us who he is. I read yours as either a boast to your higher intelligence. (Close to being a bully in the court of opinions. ) If you want to pound sand op his BUT get in a ring. (No Offense just the way I see it.)

 

[Crispin]

Wow crisp. griz hit a nerve? I read his as just telling us who he is. I read yours as either a boast to your higher intelligence. (Close to being a bully in the court of opinions. ) If you want to pound sand op his BUT get in a ring. (No Offense just the way I see it.)

Yes...he did hit a nerve. I did not read it that way. I respect your opinion. I have no desire to boast my intelligence or be a bully. I am just as falliable as the next person and intelligence takes many forms and appears in vaious arrays, that was the purpose of my post. I despise bullies, I will stand down out of respect to you. However, I will reply to the Griz's last post.

Crispin

 

[Crispin]

What is doG?

Leave slavery out of it. That was an example of what happens when you show up to a classic style debate with no facts.

Some Stats can be manipulated. But that is always the position of the person who is losing the argument or does not like the validity of the stats.

I don't engage in discussions for the purpose of changing anyone's opinions. I try to help others when I can. My opinions are just that, mine. Yours are yours. I am not here to debate these subjects, but take any hot button issue such as gun control, abortion, save the whales or whatever, and most people have firm, fixed opinions. I never try to change their minds and won't allow them to try and change mine. What's the point? They have a right to their opinion, even if they are dead wrong. And, if I try to change their mind I am liable to lose a friend or wind up in a fight. There are facts in the world. You can know them and you can use them to form your own opinions. I have already formed mine. While you and I may agree on some things and disagree on others, I am not going to try to change your mind about our differences for two reasons as stated. First, you have a right to your opinions. Second it is unlikely that I will be able to change your mind. At that point things will digress to a level of inappropriate discord.

I have no idea whose thread this is now and I hope we have no hijacked it.

Your exact question asks why then do I engage in discussions? Well, I guess to be sociable, tell a few stories, listen to some stories, etc. Unlike some, I never try to sway opinions. I have no idea how old you are, but when you are my age you will know how fruitless that can be. If a group of people are sitting around discussing one of the aforesaid topics, I just walk away, friendships intact.

1. Slavery is gone. Forget you or I mentioned it.
2. I agree with you on stats. That is why I suggested we leave them out.
3. Your statements of not engaging in discussions to change anyone's opinions, trying to help others when I can, and then not expecting anyone to change their mind are contradictory. How do you expect to help somebody if you have little to no hope of opening their mind to your side?
4. Everybody always has a right to their opinion, agreed. Anybody seen Dano recently?
5. I have never lost a friend during a discussion. Treasure Hunter and I have different views on the 2nd...last week I invited him to go hunting with me.
6. What is the point? The point is to learn more about the other person's opinion so you can constantly reevaluate your own for faults. When I started on this forum I had several opinions that have been changed by me being openminded. I could have refused to change. I have the facts to back up that side. DieselRam, Treasure Hunter, Onfire, RelevantChair, Chadeaux and others have helped bring me back towards the middle. I have learned from them and I hope they have learned from me. That is the point, my friend, that is the point.

You do not have to respond. I respect Onfire and do not wish to look like a bully and I have no desire to compare my intelligence to anybody else's. Perhaps I jumped the gun on my first response. Youth has a tendancy to do that. Of course, youth beat back the British and forged our constitution.

Regards,

Crispin