✅ SOLVED Chain - old or modern?

[callicles]

I found this in an old river channel where a steamer sunk back in the 1800's. But I know nothing about chains in order to determine if it dates to the wreck.

Is there a way to date chains? If so, could the experts here help me date it?

thanks for looking

 

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[tamrock]

I'm sure there's some details about how a chain could be dated, but it looks like one you could pick up at the hardware store today. The metal link chain has been in use since at least 225 BC.

 

[bradyboy]

I would start with observing how each link was created, was a weld used to complete the seam
any indicating of hammering or are the links very smooth
IMO

 

[pa plateau hiker]

I'm thinking, if the links are the same shape and size, machine made, not old. If they are irregular, older, but couldn't tell the age.

 

[Ripcon]

Is the chain iron or steel?
Steel would be modern for sure.

 

[Chiltepin]

Forged or welded?

 

[callicles]

Thanks for responses.

Please find below more pictures.

 

[callicles]

More:

 

[callicles]

I cannot see any seams, and the links don't necessarily look identical. However, I admit to being ignorant and am wanting it to be from a 19th Century steamer.
I'm hoping the additional pics will help the experts here - whether it's what I want to hear or not!

Again, thanks for taking your time looking and helping!

 

[callicles]

In trying to figure this out, I found this video on YouTube where it shows how smiths made hand forged chains. I guess mine could be hand forged like these? Thoughts?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MdfAwnEjqEA

 

[BosnMate]

Modern chain is mild steel, and many times has a easily seen welded seam.

Hand forged chains generally/usually have an overlap where the chain is hand forged and forge welded together.

This chain has the overlap, but needs to be heated white hot and tapped together into a weld.
while the chain below has been heated and welded. The lone, open link, has flux on it and is ready to weld.

Your chain looks to me like it's wrought iron, because I can see some grain in some of your pictures. Wrought iron would place it to possibly in the 1800's. Wrought iron is generally not manufactured any longer, and hasn't been for a long time. Everything seems to be mild steel now. I remember about 70 years ago, nails and re-bar were wrought iron. I know this because wrought iron can't be worked cold, and I would try to make a knife from a nail or re-bar, and the grains would separate. I didn't know why at the time. Anyhow, here is a link that will tell you about wrought iron in more detail than I'm willing to write. It's very interesting and sure helps date what you might find.

https://www.realwroughtiron.com/about-wrought-iron/what-is-wrought-iron/

 

[callicles]

Modern chain is mild steel, and many times has a easily seen welded seam.
View attachment 1504776
Hand forged chains generally/usually have an overlap where the chain is hand forged and forge welded together.
View attachment 1504779
This chain has the overlap, but needs to be heated white hot and tapped together into a weld.
while the chain below has been heated and welded. The lone, open link, has flux on it and is ready to weld.
View attachment 1504780
Your chain looks to me like it's wrought iron, because I can see some grain in some of your pictures. Wrought iron would place it to possibly in the 1800's. Wrought iron is generally not manufactured any longer, and hasn't been for a long time. Everything seems to be mild steel now. I remember about 70 years ago, nails and re-bar were wrought iron. I know this because wrought iron can't be worked cold, and I would try to make a knife from a nail or re-bar, and the grains would separate. I didn't know why at the time. Anyhow, here is a link that will tell you about wrought iron in more detail than I'm willing to write. It's very interesting and sure helps date what you might find.

https://www.realwroughtiron.com/about-wrought-iron/what-is-wrought-iron/

Wow! Thanks for the information and site. You mentioned grain - and so did the site you sent me to. Could you tell me a little more about the grain your seeing? I can't tell if I'm seeing normal corrosion or grain. What does grain look like? Like wood grain?

 

[bradyboy]

think you have a old forged chain
The bar stock is uneven

 

[Ripcon]

It looks big enough to be part of the ship's anchor chain.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The "grain" in wrought-iron looks like the "grain" you see in Beef Potroast. Wrought-iron is created by hammering an iron ingot flat, then folding it over, hammering it flat again, repeating that process many-many times. The result is an iron object which has the capability of slightly bending/flexing under stress, instead of having the brittleness (tendency to shatter) of cast-iron. That's why long edged weapons like swords were made of wrought-iron or wrought steel. Under bending stress or tension (such as a chain endures), wrought-iron is stronger than cast-iron.

 

[tamrock]

That's a big chunk of chain. I didn't see that in the first post. It does look old, so maybe it was used on this paddlewheeler you're referring to.?

 

[BosnMate]

Wow! Thanks for the information and site. You mentioned grain - and so did the site you sent me to. Could you tell me a little more about the grain your seeing? I can't tell if I'm seeing normal corrosion or grain. What does grain look like? Like wood grain?

In the picture of your chain, the visible grain is circled. In the next picture of scrap iron, the visible grain is pointed at using v's, and the last picture, a wrought iron rod has been cut half way, then broken, and you can see the grain like stump pull when you cut down a tree.

 

[callicles]

View attachment 1505485
View attachment 1505487
View attachment 1505488
In the picture of your chain, the visible grain is circled. In the next picture of scrap iron, the visible grain is pointed at using v's, and the last picture, a wrought iron rod has been cut half way, then broken, and you can see the grain like stump pull when you cut down a tree.

Again, BosnMate, thanks so much for taking the time to explain all this to me. Now that I know it is wrought iron, I feel like I can say with some measure of confidence that the chain likely came from the steamer.

 

[BosnMate]

Again, BosnMate, thanks so much for taking the time to explain all this to me. Now that I know it is wrought iron, I feel like I can say with some measure of confidence that the chain likely came from the steamer.

I agree, it probably did. What else are you finding?

 

[callicles]

I agree, it probably did. What else are you finding?

Numerous things. I'm having to educate myself on the items so that I might properly identify them to determine whether they are from a steamer or not. I've got a long way to go.

Here are are a few items: