Cellar hole iffy signals questions

[Wild Colonial Boy]

I am having no luck in the immediate area (20ft from edge of hole ) around the few cellar holes I detected

i think I am being too selective on only digging good solid signals, When I dig iffy/ good signal mixes its always nails

just watched a Hoover Boys video interview where the say there real luck started when they started digging all signals

I know they use another machine

Just wondering if equinox users are doing this also?

Q and A with Hoover Boy Kurt Franz - Metal Detecting Gear

Thanks

 

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[Tedyoh]

If you want to find it all you have to dig it all....especially at older sites....im at this point on a few of my older sites in PA...cherry picking and iffy signals are all but gone.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

sounds Like a plan

thanks

 

[vferrari]

Digging it all is the only way to be at least somewhat sure you have got most everything at a site and 100% sure of anything your machine actually covered.

Site selection (research and obtaining permissions) is the most important factor in being successful at detecting.

Second most important is thorough coil coverage and site surveys. Gridding, marking finds and boundaries, identifying trends and groupings are all clues as to where you should concentrate your efforts. Digging it all if you can, gives you more data to work with and ups your chances of success. No matter how good your machine is, you will not find the target unless you pass the coil over it. Obviously, practical matters such as site access time, weather, site usage (is it a planted field or pristine park), permission parameters (number of allowed visits, how many plugs you can dig up etc.), weathering/erosion, and access by other detectorists make a lot of site coverage and digging it all not practical much of the time.

Having something that beeps in your hand when you pass the coil over metal comes in a distant third. Basically you are looking for something that gives decent depth, decent recovery speed in trash to provide separation, decent discrimination and filters (that should be used sparingly), something that is stable in a variety of ground conditions, something that gives at least good and descriptive audio, visual target ID is a good add, coil selection is also good, and don't overlook ergonomics (weight, balance, and user interface including an uncluttered screen you can actually see without squinting and without having to go through layers of menus to reach important settings). Most everything else is just window dressing. Fast but deep, and responsive VCO pitch machines like most of the Tesoros out there are basically all you need if you've got the first two issues covered (site selection and coverage). I like having some of the other features, but nearly all of my key finds have not been due to the detector I used but were due to the site I was on and how well I was able to cover it.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Fantastic advice as always

Thanks Hugh

 

[HighVDI]

Theres people at old sites who dig iron signals! Older sites take lots of work to clean out but it's worth it.

 

[pa-dirt_nc-sand]

I definitely don’t dig it all around cellar holes in my neck of the woods. I simply don’t have enough time. I’ve done enough test gardens to understand how a silver quarter on edge at over 8” can sound mostly like iron or crap. So there is merit to digging all. For me the iffy signal has to to be small, consistent and be over 75% non iron numbers with the horseshoe. I just dug a deep Merc (1924) in Field 2 this afternoon. What mode do you use around cellar holes?

 

[HighVDI]

I definitely don’t dig it all around cellar holes in my neck of the woods. I simply don’t have enough time. I’ve done enough test gardens to understand how a silver quarter on edge at over 8” can sound mostly like iron or crap. So there is merit to digging all. For me the iffy signal has to to be small, consistent and be over 75% non iron numbers with the horseshoe. I just dug a deep Merc (1924) in Field 2 this afternoon. What mode do you use around cellar holes?

I have a late 18th/early 19th century spot that was an old homesite and now 5 acres of mowed grass. A buddy and I hit that spot a half dozen times together and probably a dozen times by myself. I ended pulling a total of 8 coppers from the property along with dozens of early to mid 19th century flat buttons and a couple 1700's dandy. Also a shield nickel, bale seal and many other good items. It wasn't until we started digging it all until we started digging the better targets. Masking is HUGE issue in the hobby. It is a double edged sword no doubt because it does take time to clean a place out but even after there's no more beeps there could still be a hidden coin under your coil due to silent masking as well!

Sometimes I wonder if in the most dense iron areas if sifting is actually the way to go. After removing the 8" or so of soil then running the detector over the fresh ground and if more iron keep removing.

I think there will be a day in this hobby where we will have to return to the old places we hit and dig it all! It would be great if the old stuff would replenish itself! Haha.

 

[pa-dirt_nc-sand]

I have a late 18th/early 19th century spot that was an old homesite and now 5 acres of mowed grass. A buddy and I hit that spot a half dozen times together and probably a dozen times by myself. I ended pulling a total of 8 coppers from the property along with dozens of early to mid 19th century flat buttons and a couple 1700's dandy. Also a shield nickel, bale seal and many other good items. It wasn't until we started digging it all until we started digging the better targets. Masking is HUGE issue in the hobby. It is a double edged sword no doubt because it does take time to clean a place out but even after there's no more beeps there could still be a hidden coin under your coil due to silent masking as well!

Sometimes I wonder if in the most dense iron areas if sifting is actually the way to go. After removing the 8" or so of soil then running the detector over the fresh ground and if more iron keep removing.

I think there will be a day in this hobby where we will have to return to the old places we hit and dig it all! It would be great if the old stuff would replenish itself! Haha.

Hey John, my last machine did not respond with a lot of iffy signals, beep and dig. I did pretty well with it, however at a cellar hole site I would often get fooled with a high tone beep that ended up being a rusty nail, it had no iron audio function.

We are digging the same dirt and sometimes the same sites. Are you saying at the site you referenced that you dug all iron tones or just iffy iron mixed with mid or high numbers? Digging iffy mixed signals at a proven site like you described makes sense.
I would love to run a rotoriller at a couple sites like that and see what gets unmasked.

“Silent Masking” say it ain’t so...

 

[Tpmetal]

Its probably mainly your coil size. many machines can not go around a cellar and get good hits with out a smaller coil.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

HighVDI I am curious to hear what kind of signals those coins came in at??

My inexperience makes me want to ask what is an iffy.... potentially good signal ?


My current settings

I am running Field 2, 5 tones , recovery speed 6/7, no iron bias and all metal on

I dropped sensitivity to 15 and go over again

I am beginning to think leaving all metal on in the thick iron is distracting and preventing me really hearing any potential signal


any time i dig a high positive number, one direction and jumpy to minuses, it always nails

Should i just trust the machine, is this machine that good?

I have nevera jumpy good bad signal to date that gave me anything decent

but knowing other have give me hope

It seems like removing junk over time is the best way to go

I set up a George II half penny in soil with two square nails at 5"
with coin on 40 degree angle and nails beside and over it and its hard to pick up
, If I slant coil at 60 degrees it picks it up in one direction

it seems thats what we are dealing with, its just the reality of the situation, all the metal confuses machine, and it depends on the time you have the mood your in any giving day
the 6" coil is on its way, maybe It will shed some light

Thanks all for your great input

 

[gunsil]

I started with a beep and dig BFO and patience was the byword since I basically HAD to dig it all. I have gone through several generations of machines and although discrimination is nice and has definitely improved as has recovery speed and iron ID the only true discriminator or target ID is when the target is in your hand. I firmly believe that he who digs the most holes finds the most good stuff, period. Patience is still a detector user's best virtue.

 

[Calabash Digger]

I dig a lot of holes......no way around it.

 

[cudamark]

Hey John, my last machine did not respond with a lot of iffy signals, beep and dig. I did pretty well with it, however at a cellar hole site I would often get fooled with a high tone beep that ended up being a rusty nail, it had no iron audio function.

We are digging the same dirt and sometimes the same sites. Are you saying at the site you referenced that you dug all iron tones or just iffy iron mixed with mid or high numbers? Digging iffy mixed signals at a proven site like you described makes sense.
I would love to run a rotoriller at a couple sites like that and see what gets unmasked.

“Silent Masking” say it ain’t so...

A rototiller can do a lot of damage to targets too! That would be a last resort in my book. I'd rather dig and sift.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Thanks

I think its working, these were all jumpy but a little solid sound coming through


the button don't know what it is,,it appears 2 piece and gilded, waiting for it to dry out


the tiny button 1/4" was in with nails at 5" and still came through
the silver spoon is nice, the pewter has decoration

 

[HighVDI]

HighVDI I am curious to hear what kind of signals those coins came in at??

My inexperience makes me want to ask what is an iffy.... potentially good signal ?


My current settings

I am running Field 2, 5 tones , recovery speed 6/7, no iron bias and all metal on

I dropped sensitivity to 15 and go over again

I am beginning to think leaving all metal on in the thick iron is distracting and preventing me really hearing any potential signal


any time i dig a high positive number, one direction and jumpy to minuses, it always nails

Should i just trust the machine, is this machine that good?

I have nevera jumpy good bad signal to date that gave me anything decent

but knowing other have give me hope

It seems like removing junk over time is the best way to go

I set up a George II half penny in soil with two square nails at 5"
with coin on 40 degree angle and nails beside and over it and its hard to pick up
, If I slant coil at 60 degrees it picks it up in one direction

it seems thats what we are dealing with, its just the reality of the situation, all the metal confuses machine, and it depends on the time you have the mood your in any giving day
the 6" coil is on its way, maybe It will shed some light

Thanks all for your great input

Really the point I am trying make is what others are saying. No way around masking! The more iron and junk you dig might discourage most people but in reality in a spot dense with items you don't want are good targets you can't hear until they're removed.

Perfect example was a 6" merc I dug a couple weeks ago. Nice, deep nickel signal. I dig it up.....older Jefferson nickel. Fill in hole and re scan and I get a faint high tone very silver like....hmmmm.

Open the plug back up and a couple scoops later there's a shiny merc in the hole! The nickel was COMPLETELY masking that dime. I can only imagine that removing iron targets would open up new signals just the same. Possibly to an even bigger degree.

 

[Tedyoh]

My most recent example was an iron overload signal on the Deus.....remove Axe head (which i will put back into service) re-scan hole and a 2 cent piece two inches below it.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Great examples
Thank you so much

 

[DigDeepNow]

I have a late 18th/early 19th century spot that was an old homesite and now 5 acres of mowed grass. A buddy and I hit that spot a half dozen times together and probably a dozen times by myself. I ended pulling a total of 8 coppers from the property along with dozens of early to mid 19th century flat buttons and a couple 1700's dandy. Also a shield nickel, bale seal and many other good items. It wasn't until we started digging it all until we started digging the better targets. Masking is HUGE issue in the hobby. It is a double edged sword no doubt because it does take time to clean a place out but even after there's no more beeps there could still be a hidden coin under your coil due to silent masking as well!

Sometimes I wonder if in the most dense iron areas if sifting is actually the way to go. After removing the 8" or so of soil then running the detector over the fresh ground and if more iron keep removing.

I think there will be a day in this hobby where we will have to return to the old places we hit and dig it all! It would be great if the old stuff would replenish itself! Haha.

Great post....

 

[Honest Samuel]

Take your time, and good hunting and good luck.