Carved Bullet Or Hard Ram?

[Fullstock]

Found the .69 caliber mini ball on the right last night (shown with a none deformed .69 on the left for comparison). At first I thought it was hard rammed and fired, but it looks like the base was cut deeper with a pocket knife and then I wondered what rifle barrel could deform a .69 like that? So what is it? Carved or hard rammed? Thanks for your opinion.

 

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[DirtyPockects]

Shot with ram rod in the barrel?

 

[Tedyoh]

I think i see ramrod marks where they should be in the birds eye view picture.....guessing thats a earlier post civil war minnie ball.

 

[RustyRelics]

That would be a nice hard rammed bullet! When a soldiers gun wasn't cleaned, they had to ram the bullet down with extra force.

 

[DCMatt]

To my eye it looks more like it had another bullet rammed on top of it. Does it fit nicely into the bottom of the non-fired .69?

The deformation seems too wide and too deep to be caused by a ramrod tip.

In my experience with muzzle loading guns (as a reenactor), they begin to foul after several shots. If you used a ramrod that big in battle, after 5 or 6 shots it would get stuck in the barrel - and then you're done...

 

[RustyRelics]

To my eye it looks more like it had another bullet rammed on top of it. Does it fit nicely into the bottom of the non-fired .69?

The deformation seems too wide and too deep to be caused by a ramrod tip.

In my experience with muzzle loading guns (as a reenactor), they begin to foul after several shots. If you used a ramrod that big in battle, after 5 or 6 shots it would get stuck in the barrel - and then you're done...

That is actually a very good assessment.

 

[releventchair]

From the pics....It looks like two different style bullets. Cast from very different mold designs.

Questioned bullet does not show deformation from being crushed on it's snout.

The thinner skirt allows better expansion with lighter powder charges.

IF fired , and it would have to have had a gentle non firm obstruction free landing...It does not show any rifling marks on it's skirt. (Which should have expanded into rifling).
It could have been launched from a smooth bore . Loosely enough to cause the deformation on the one side. But again would have needed a gentle landing.
May have been mashed under foot after being dropped ...

 

[smokeythecat]

Not carved. One shot on top of another.

 

[Fullstock]

To my eye it looks more like it had another bullet rammed on top of it. Does it fit nicely into the bottom of the non-fired .69?

The deformation seems too wide and too deep to be caused by a ramrod tip.

In my experience with muzzle loading guns (as a reenactor), they begin to foul after several shots. If you used a ramrod that big in battle, after 5 or 6 shots it would get stuck in the barrel - and then you're done...

I think you’re right DCMatt, it’s a pretty close fit.

 

[DCMatt]

It does not show any rifling marks on it's skirt. (Which should have expanded into rifling).
It could have been launched from a smooth bore .

My reenactment weapon is a replica .69 "Richmond Rifle". My understanding is that it is a copy of the Model 1842 Springfield, which is a smooth-bore, made in Richmond using machinery that the CSA took from the armory at Harpers Ferry.

 

[DCMatt]

One shot on top of another.

I'll drink to that...

 

[releventchair]

My reenactment weapon is a replica .69 "Richmond Rifle". My understanding is that it is a copy of the Model 1842 Springfield, which is a smooth-bore, made in Richmond using machinery that the CSA took from the armory at Harpers Ferry.

A friend has a family relic (Yankee) a family member drilled and tromped with. Smoothbore.

I'll need to ask again where he went but do recall complaint in one letter about footwear, and a long wait at wars end to get discharged.

 

[Joe-Dirt]

I’m thinking hard ram, the marks from the ramrod are big because they are from a Springfield tulip ramrod from the model 1842 Springfield rifled musket. It had a very deep concave business end. There is no evidence of the bullets being “pulled” and I’m guesssing you didn’t find a burst barrel because that would have been the result of a double load. Also, each bullet would have identical marks in the grease grooves. I shoot original muzzle loading civil war firearms in competition and that looks like an oversized bullet that has been forced into a smaller or dirty barrel maybe from mixing 69 caliber meant for different guns (European vs American, M1842 vs m1816 conversions)