🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Can't find nothing on this button.

[scavenger1]

I dug this today. Been researching it and keep coming up empty. Does anyone on here know what kind of button it is and the age of it. There's no writing on the back of it. My gut tells me it's a Spanish Colonial Infantry uniform bottom and dates around 1770's. I base that on example "B" in the button chart below because the back of the button is nonexistent and was probably wood or bone (more likely wood). My analysis is just a wild guess. What do you guys think? Please help.

 

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[villagenut]

May just be a more modern blazer button with the back being long rusted away....

 

[pepperj]

I dug this today. Been researching it and keep coming up empty. Does anyone on here know what kind of button it is and the age of it. There's no writing on the back of it. My gut tells me it's a Spanish Colonial Infantry uniform bottom and dates around 1770's. I base that on example "B" in the button chart below because the back of the button is nonexistent and was probably wood or bone (more likely wood). My analysis is just a wild guess. What do you guys think? Please help.

Modern as in under 50 yrs or so.
Keep digging

 

[achanceforgold]

There is a similar button on reddit.
found in Washington State.
I'm not sure if it is the same.

 

[smokeythecat]

Try Equador military. I think I saw something like it somewhere before.

 

[scavenger1]

Modern as in under 50 yrs or so.
Keep digging

But it just can't be modern least I hope not... you see I have this bucket list thing I'm doing and one of the few things I haven't checked off is "Spanish Colonial", so you see it just has to be Spanish Colonial from the 1700's... IT JUST HAS TO BE! Please everyone here keep digging on this till we solve it. I'll come up with more evidence to proof my 1700's theory.

 

[pepperj]

But it just can't be modern least I hope not... you see I have this bucket list thing I'm doing and one of the few things I haven't checked off is "Spanish Colonial", so you see it just has to be Spanish Colonial from the 1700's... IT JUST HAS TO BE! Please everyone here keep digging on this till we solve it. I'll come up with more evidence to proof my 1700's theory.

Take a picture of the back.
Rusted out?
Modern

Just because we walk on old dirt doesn't mean the recoveries are old.
Our wants don't always align with what comes out of the dirt.
Most detectorists that have dug for decades have dug very similar buttons as yours.

 

[scavenger1]

Take a picture of the back.
Rusted out?
Modern

Just because we walk on old dirt doesn't mean the recoveries are old.
Our wants don't always align with what comes out of the dirt.
Most detectorists that have dug for decades have dug very similar buttons as yours.

I did take a picture of the back it's in the pictures, there's no back to the button because it was probably wooden like the buttons from the 1700's were and has rotted away again in the original post.

 

[scavenger1]

This button is from the 1700's I can feel it in my bones. It hard to see but look closely at the button it has a coat of arms with 2 castles, 2 lions, and a upside down triangle in the middle. I believe that's what's there look hard at it. Now I found a picture of a Spanish Colonial coin with Charles III (who reigned in the 1770's) coat of arms and yes you guess it 2 castles, 2 lions, and a upside down triangle of 3 fleur-de-lis. This button is Spanish!

 

[scavenger1]

There is a similar button on reddit.
found in Washington State.
I'm not sure if it is the same.

achanceforgold, this button you're referring to was found in the Seattle Washington area where Spanish explorers (along with military I'm sure) landed in 1774... What a coincidence because that's the exact same time they were in my area... Imagine that... Below is the article... I think we are getting closer to SOLVING this one... What do you guy think?

Latino History in Washington State

Latinos, the largest minority in the United States at more than 13 percent of the population as of 2006, have been instrumental to the development of Washington state since the 1774 Spanish explorati

www.historylink.org

 

[achanceforgold]

achanceforgold, this button you're referring to was found in the Seattle Washington area where Spanish explorers (along with military I'm sure) landed in 1774... What a coincidence because that's the exact same time they were in my area... Imagine that... Below is the article... I think we are getting closer to SOLVING this one... What do you guy think?

Latino History in Washington State

Latinos, the largest minority in the United States at more than 13 percent of the population as of 2006, have been instrumental to the development of Washington state since the 1774 Spanish explorati

www.historylink.org

Hahaha...I Love it!

I'm glad you were able to connect the two. Definitely Spanish explorers... IMO.
Great Research!

Spanish Colonial from the 1700's✅


What part of Florida are you detecting?

 

[achanceforgold]

It might be from this uniform.
See this guy is missing a button too.
It must have been a manufacturing defect or something.

Just kidding of course

 

[robertk]

I base that on example "B" in the button chart below because the back of the button is nonexistent and was probably wood or bone (more likely wood).

What makes you think that's likely? More likely is that it was some lesser metal that has corroded away, or that it is simply missing and of unknown composition.

But fortunately, we can answer it. That similar button that was posted above from Reddit still has its back intact. So here's what the back looks like, and it isn't wood or bone. It looks like stamped brass.

look closely at the button it has a coat of arms with 2 castles, 2 lions, and a upside down triangle in the middle.

I think you're seeing what you want to see, rather than what's there. I can't say for sure what the items in the four quadrants are, but they are definitely not castles, and probably not lions either. And that upside down triangle in the middle is lines, not fleur-de-lis, and the crown at the top isn't even close to the Spanish colonial coin example.

My guess is decorative button (not military), and made within the last hundred years.

 

[ticndig]

1970s blazer button.

 

[Red-Coat]

What makes you think that's likely? More likely is that it was some lesser metal that has corroded away, or that it is simply missing and of unknown composition.

But fortunately, we can answer it. That similar button that was posted above from Reddit still has its back intact. So here's what the back looks like, and it isn't wood or bone. It looks like stamped brass.

View attachment 2203355


I think you're seeing what you want to see, rather than what's there. I can't say for sure what the items in the four quadrants are, but they are definitely not castles, and probably not lions either. And that upside down triangle in the middle is lines, not fleur-de-lis, and the crown at the top isn't even close to the Spanish colonial coin example.

My guess is decorative button (not military), and made within the last hundred years.

I agree. The crown on your button isn’t a royal crown (and bears no resemblance to the crown on the Spanish coin you posted.) It’s more typical of a crown for a “Count”. See the examples in the Wiki entry linked below, and scroll down to “Spain” for examples of the royal crown:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_(heraldry)

The small shield in the centre of the armorial is what’s known as an “inescutcheon” and the inescutcheon with three fleur-de-lys (for the House of Bourbon) arranged as an inverted triangle was added to the Spanish arms in 1700, and still used today. I’ve never seen it represented as an actual triangle.

An inverted triangle, known heraldically as a “pile” is often seen as a charge on family armorials, representing a large piece of wood used by engineers in fortifications and bridge construction. It was granted to military leaders for significant deeds or to those who showed great ability in any kind of construction, but I’ve never seen it represented like that. It’s usually a solid figure (not an outline), and issuant from the top of the shield (not isolated as a standalone triangle.)

From 1700 onwards and until 1931 the charges in the quarters of the Spanish arms were a lion rampant for the Kingdom of León in the 1st and 3rd quarters; and a castle for the Kingdom of Castile in the 2nd and 4th quarters. It’s difficult to say what the charges are on this button (they’re a bit clearer on the ‘Reddit’ example), except to say that the 2nd and 4th quarters are the same (but don’t appear to be lions), and the 3rd quarter is definitely not a castle (it actually looks more like a lion.)

My bet would be that this is a pretentious civilian fashion button with a fantasy armorial using borrowed elements of heraldry.

 

[scavenger1]

What makes you think that's likely? More likely is that it was some lesser metal that has corroded away, or that it is simply missing and of unknown composition.

But fortunately, we can answer it. That similar button that was posted above from Reddit still has its back intact. So here's what the back looks like, and it isn't wood or bone. It looks like stamped brass.

View attachment 2203355


I think you're seeing what you want to see, rather than what's there. I can't say for sure what the items in the four quadrants are, but they are definitely not castles, and probably not lions either. And that upside down triangle in the middle is lines, not fleur-de-lis, and the crown at the top isn't even close to the Spanish colonial coin example.

My guess is decorative button (not military), and made within the last hundred years.

Yes you are absolutely right, and your analysis of the back is absolutely correct but here's what might have accrued in my case and actually pointing to "Colonial" at the same time. So the Reddit button (and I think both buttons are the same) has its back still intact meaning its brass/cooper like its front, I guess what I'm driving at is the Reddit button's front and back appears to be the same material (brass or cooper) so if that's the case then it shoots down the different theories on my post that it's a modern button that had a steel back which rusted out.
So why isn't the back on my button there if it's the same as the Reddit button you ask. I don't think the front of my button just popped off its back although possible its farfetched. My theory is that they made some of these buttons with wood/bone backs and my button is an example of that (see picture below). That would make sense if Spain was at War (to conserve metals) and Spain was in a major War with England in the 1770's.

 

[michael NY]

Yes you are absolutely right, and your analysis of the back is absolutely correct but here's what might have accrued in my case and actually pointing to "Colonial" at the same time. So the Reddit button (and I think both buttons are the same) has its back still intact meaning its brass/cooper like its front, I guess what I'm driving at is the Reddit button's front and back appears to be the same material (brass or cooper) so if that's the case then it shoots down the different theories on my post that it's a modern button that had a steel back which rusted out.
So why isn't the back on my button there if it's the same as the Reddit button you ask. I don't think the front of my button just popped off its back although possible it’s farfetched. My theory is that they made some of these buttons with wood/bone backs and my button is an example of that (see picture below). That would make sense if Spain was at War (to conserve metals) and Spain was in a major War with England in the 1770's.

This might be helpful nice find

Civil War New York Excelsior Pocket Button, Scoville MF'G | eBay

Civil War New York Excelsior Pocket Button, Scoville MF'G

www.ebay.com

 

[scavenger1]

I agree. The crown on your button isn’t a royal crown (and bears no resemblance to the crown on the Spanish coin you posted.) It’s more typical of a crown for a “Count”. See the examples in the Wiki entry linked below, and scroll down to “Spain” for examples of the royal crown:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_(heraldry)

The small shield in the centre of the armorial is what’s known as an “inescutcheon” and the inescutcheon with three fleur-de-lys (for the House of Bourbon) arranged as an inverted triangle was added to the Spanish arms in 1700, and still used today. I’ve never seen it represented as an actual triangle.

An inverted triangle, known heraldically as a “pile” is often seen as a charge on family armorials, representing a large piece of wood used by engineers in fortifications and bridge construction. It was granted to military leaders for significant deeds or to those who showed great ability in any kind of construction, but I’ve never seen it represented like that. It’s usually a solid figure (not an outline), and issuant from the top of the shield (not isolated as a standalone triangle.)

From 1700 onwards and until 1931 the charges in the quarters of the Spanish arms were a lion rampant for the Kingdom of León in the 1st and 3rd quarters; and a castle for the Kingdom of Castile in the 2nd and 4th quarters. It’s difficult to say what the charges are on this button (they’re a bit clearer on the ‘Reddit’ example), except to say that the 2nd and 4th quarters are the same (but don’t appear to be lions), and the 3rd quarter is definitely not a castle (it actually looks more like a lion.)

My bet would be that this is a pretentious civilian fashion button with a fantasy armorial using borrowed elements of heraldry.

Red-Coat, Wow your analysis is spot on and absolutely correct. I thank you for taking the time to put in your insight and to be honest I am starting to lean more on your side of the fence with it being a "pretentious civilian fashion button" but...
Trust me I have thought out your analysis almost word for word myself but at the end of the day I have to go with the path of least resistance that makes the most sense and my gut is telling me it was lost by a soldier because there was so many of them here in my area of Florida. Also, all these Spanish soldiers left the area around 1820 so that button predates 1820 in my opinion. As for the 4 quarters of the shield it's hard to see but in my opinion they are castles and loins and yes you are absolutely right about the order of them it doesn't make sense also the triangle isn't jiving as well. I have found examples of Spanish Infantry Colonial buttons with the loins and castles in different quarters of the shield (unfortunately I lost the picture but I did notice that) so some Spanish Infantry Colonial buttons from the 1770's are different. Not going to lie it's the crown and inverted triangle that's killing me and my theory yes it's not the same your absolutely right and yes the button maybe civilian. Let me ask you this Red-Coat in your opinion does this button predate 1820?

 

[Red-Coat]

... Let me ask you this Red-Coat in your opinion does this button predate 1820?

No, I don't believe so. I would say somewhere between the late 19th and first part of the 20th Century.

 

[scavenger1]

No, I don't believe so. I would say somewhere between the late 19th and first part of the 20th Century.

Red-Coat, your insight weighs a lot to me and I'm pretty sure you're correct but before I mark this one solved, I want to drive a little deeper on the "Count Crown" and the "Inverted Triangle" to see if I can date that, I'm sure it will be a waste of my time. Can I ask you (oh and the forum) a quick question? Do you see the little dimples/tiny indentations all over the button, was that for some kind of platting/guilting that they adding like maybe silver platting or bass platting? It's just a little odd to see those dimples all over it I can't help to think it's to hold platting on the button better.