Can this forum finally identify this strange disc with religious figure and text?

S

Sand87

Jr. Member
Feb 28, 2015
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I found this in a field (in Scotland) a number of years ago and it remains unidentified. Museums, collectors, multiple different forums...plenty of guesses but not a single solid I.D.

It seems to be made of lead or something similar (anyone know for sure?) , it weighs 350 grams and seems to be a handmade disc with the figure of a lady scratched in to it. The lady appears to be wearing a religious headscarf or veil of some sort.

There is lettering running around the edge but is badly faded but some of the letters that are visible are in one of my photos. It could be SAxxx WEDICES or SAxxx MEDICES or something like that and people have pointed out that MEDICES is a latin word meaning doctor?

It also appears to be a mould of some sort because when I hold it up in a mirror the image and text reverse and seem to be a little more 'right'. For example the backward looking 'S' or Z thing becomes a normal shaped S.


This is a video I made to give a good idea of the disc:




Somebody on another forum took exception to me linking to a monetised youtube video so here are some pictures (which highlight the words better):

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

https://imgur.com/a/3YiFY (the last two pictures here are in the mirror so the image is reversed)

If you need any other information just ask. I would LOVE to finally get this resolved.
 

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I believe its a handmade quite possibly a self portrait cameo for someone to wear around the neck. I don't quite know what the saying would mean but it could be a expression of love to someone. A boy could have made it for his sweetheart for instance. And we know them Scottish lads can do some pretty amazing things when they is in love......:laughing7: Its a neat find.
 

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kingskid1611 said:
I believe its a handmade quite possibly a self portrait cameo for someone to wear around the neck. I don't quite know what the saying would mean but it could be a expression of love to someone. A boy could have made it for his sweetheart for instance. And we know them Scottish lads can do some pretty amazing things when they is in love......:laughing7: Its a neat find.
Click to expand...


I think it is too heavy for wearing around the neck, it's 350 grams, I imagine that would be quite a weight to have swinging from your neck?

It's also carved 'in' the way and the text appears reversed - doesn't that suggest a mould or stamp/die of some sort rather than a final, finished product?
 

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A large signet perhaps.
Unlike a commencement/ graduation medallion ,perhaps it was used to impress wax or clay or parchment on documents or to provide a type of credential to students?

I' m sticking with Cosmas .
The figures profile fits. The Latin fits . The medicine reference fits.
 

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I would try looking at it under alternate light sources, such as U.V., etc. Different lights and different colors reveal things not visible under natural light, go forensic Buddy !!!
 

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Cosmas is a really good suggestion, I mean everything does fit but the figure...seems female to me? Not even sure why , maybe it's the headscarf thing.

Begs the question...what next? Where do I go now to get this properly ID'd? You know the Antique's Roadshow where they bring old stuff along and a professional tells them where it was made, how old it is, what it was used for...EVERYTHING. That's what I want, haha! Not much!
 

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Icewing said:
It looks similar to some of the old school pewter pill boxes that I've seen.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...&pq=antique+pewter+pill+box&sc=1-15&sp=-1&sk=
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Wow...looking through those images you're not wrong, it does look very similar to some of those. I never even knew that was a thing. And it would make sense with the possible 'doctor' connection.

Maybe a mould to make them? Although mine has a small bit at the top that has a hole through it as if it was supposed to hang from something - what might that be if it was a pill container? Or would it be there for the moulding process?
 

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Keep looking, it was fairly common for people to wear them like a locket or have them attached to clothing just like a pocket watch.
 

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I think your item is not a mold but was molded from a medallion. Possibly a bronze medal similar to this one:

image01604.jpg

This one is French from the early 16th C. - Wife of Carlos d'Orleans.

The Medices family name has connections to English Royals in the 15th & 16th C.

DCMatt
 

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Here is an Italian medallion from the 15th C which bears the Medices family name:

RP_1651-1.jpg
 

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If your piece is an impression from a Renaissance era medal, the 'V' may actually be a 'U'.
 

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DCMat those images are really interesting and I can definitely see a similarity in the little tab thing with the hole through it. Wow.

I emailed more people at museums last night and I got a reply from one this morning and this is what she had to say:

Thank you for your enquiry. I would agree with your thoughts on your film that this is one half of a mould or matrix for a medal (or perhaps a seal, if the metal is indeed lead?). There would have been a couple of other loops on the rim, I think, to secure the two matrices. We have a sixteenth-century example with similar loops in our collections:

Seal matrix | | V&A Search the Collections

I’m afraid I can’t make much from the inscription, but the woman’s costume might be that of a nurse:

QAIMNS World War I Queen Alexandra's Imperial Military Nursing Service QAIMNS Nurses

https://libraryblog.rcpsg.ac.uk/tag/glasgow-royal-infirmary/

It’s always difficult to judge from photographs, but I would suggest a late-nineteenth or twentieth-century date.

I hope this is of some help, and all the best with your continuing researches.
Click to expand...


so it was interesting to learn that these things had more than one loop
 

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I did miss this thread... but I am afraid I also will be of no help.

Good luck on solving this one... IMO... This is a "crude one off".
Perhaps an attempt at something that was discarded.
The crude "etching" is very ... very... crude.. no offense... but this was no "finished piece" IMO.

There will be no "reference" to "positively ID" this IMO.

When something is "one of a kind" there is no ID other than what you see.
And no value other than what someone is willing to pay.

Sorry I could not be of any help.
 

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the Italian Medice family was big time into the medical trade items ..they grew very very rich supplying medical herbs and potions to the wealthy of Europe during a time when medical knowledge was rather rare and wealthy kings with say gout would pay about anything for a cure to ease their pain --or for "pain killers" to deal with it ...they had a ready made market for their goods and services
 

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