Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

[Oilfield Diver]

Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center. The "H" sticks out in a recessed circle in the center of the cartridge. I have a found a couple of them and larger calibers as well that do not have a primer cap in the center. Thx.

 

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[kuger]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

Henry Rimfire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_rifle

Have to have some dimensions to know what caliber

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

Actually it's more likely made by Winchester. They continued to use the H headstamp after they bought out Henry. As I recall all Henry rifles were made in .44 rimfire, so if yours is a smaller, .32 rimfire it would definitely be Winchester, but both made the .44 rimfire. I believe, but am not sure at the moment, that an original Henry cartridge would look more like this one in the photo.......I'll see if I can dig up confirmation either way for you

 

[CC Hunter]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

The original .44 cal. Henry rifle employed a distinct double firing pin mechanism. Also, a fired Henry casing will exhibit a characteristic raised bulge on the empty cartridge head, due to expansion during firing. Therefore, single firing pin mark, caliber other than .44 rimfire, and no head bulge on a fired casing, equals a most definite consensus that we are dealing with a different animal in the inquiry above.

Here's a bit more in-depth analysis on the subject: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,410401.msg2922832.html#msg2922832



CC Hunter

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

44 cal "rimfire" henry rifles used a dual strike type firing pin to prevent misfires --if it was shot with a henry rifle it should have that dual hit firing pin mark . as far a large 44 caliber rimfire rounds go H is for Henry rifles - but the headstamp mark was also used after they were bought out by Winchester as well -which made smaller bore size rifles as well as a 44 caliber one----being it has a single strike firing pin mark --Winchester most likely is the rifle that fired it and who most likely made the ammo. (in my veiwpoint)

 

[Oilfield Diver]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

Wow, thanks guys. Here is one more pic just for kicks - I checked the drawer and pulled out another that is the smaller size and appears to be intact. This appears to be an early one as it has two concentric grooves and no reeds, but is a small caliber. Is the small one a Henry or Winchester? Is the larger one a Henry or Winchester? Thanks again all.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

might be pistol rounds -- there were 44 cal pistols then too * -- rifles tended to have longer sized cases

as blackpowder rimfire type cartridge rounds came into being post civil war era 1865 * there were lots of various calibers -- the rimfire blackpowder rounds era was cut short by the invention of the primered shell casing and smokeless powder * around the turn of the century - (1900 ) smokeless powder rapidly pushed the older black powder rounds and rifles to the side.

theres a 35 year or so year "window" from 1865 thru oh about 1900 when the blackpowder rounds were the commonly used rounds

smaller one most likely a winchester round * despite the "h" headstamp --since henry made 44 cals only - since the smaller round is not a 44 --its a smaller bore sized winchester round with the old "H" -henry headstamp which winchester used for a while after buying up henry.

the larger looks to be a 44 round -

 

[Oilfield Diver]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

Thanks all, thanks Ivan. I am marking this one solved. Fits right in the expected time period - 1860's to 1900. Y'all are a great help in piecing together history!

 

[CC Hunter]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

The complete casing above appears to be about right for a .32 caliber revolver or pistol cartridge. The larger casing is unusually short in comparison to a larger caliber rifle or revolver. I am leaning towards possibly a Derringer casing in maybe .40 caliber or so.

Winchester made a ton of cartridges for all makes and models of arms. Just because there is the "H" headstamp, does not attribute a casing to Henry or even Winchester. Smith & Wesson, Remington, Colt, and others, could even take some Winchester cartridges.

CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

Here's a famous .41 cal. rimfire Derringer 8)

http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=6023&lotNo=98112

From my experience in digging casings and cartridges, those short squatty ones of larger caliber are attributed to Derringer handguns. Always fun to think of gamblers and such, with visions of Wild West towns, when digging this type of history.

CC Hunter

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

good point * winchester rounds could be used in differant weapons other than henrys or winchesters of course * and the very short shell casing could easily be a Derringer round.

 

[Oilfield Diver]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

Wow, a Derringer round - and this isn't the only shorty I have found. I think I have dug a few more like this, I will take a look. I wonder who was popping off a Derringer around there. The place has lots of history, including a few notorious outlaws of the era that roamed the vicinity (as well as high ranking military officers of the era that walked the very same grounds), very interesting..

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

As I mentioned elsewhere, Hurricane Emily knocked out Internet access in my neighborhood for 8 days. With Internet-access now restored, I'm able to speak up in confirmation that the info provided by NOLA_Ken, CC Hunter, and Ivan Salis is correct.

The only comment I need to add, to help educate other forum-readers, is that the the photo of a .44-caliber Henry Repeating Rifle/Carbine cartridge shows a post-civil-war version of that bullet. Unlike the one in the photo, which shows a groove encricling the lead bullet's body above the copper casing's rim, all civil war .44 Henry bullets had no groove showing above the casing.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Re: Can someone date and brand this bullet shell casing? Has "H" in the center.

As I mentioned elsewhere, Hurricane Emily knocked out Internet access in my neighborhood for 8 days. With Internet-access now restored, I'm able to speak up in confirmation that the info provided by NOLA_Ken, CC Hunter, and Ivan Salis is correct.

The only comment I need to add, to help educate other forum-readers, is that the the photo of a .44-caliber Henry Repeating Rifle/Carbine cartridge shows a post-civil-war version of that bullet. Unlike the one in the photo, which shows a groove encricling the lead bullet's body above the copper casing's rim, all civil war .44 Henry bullets had no groove showing above the casing.

thanks for that info, I didn't know about the groove. One of the things I love about this forum is that I learn new things all the time.