California Creeks OK to Prospect

[khb19992000]

Hi guys. Just getting started and Hopefully somebody can help me with some information.

My first question is are creeks and rivers public property outside of of the BLM and forest service land? Can you go gold panning or sluicing in most creeks? I have relatives that have property in Amador county that is on a creek not on federal land. Am I allowed to prospect without breaking any laws. I've read about the right to passage as long as you don't cross private land to get there. So, if I enter the creek on our property can I travel up and down to sluice within the creek?

I've read huge amounts of information and the more I read the more twisted everything becomes. I've talked to the blm, fish and game, amador county and everyone just seems to pass the buck for information. I have questions about high banking/power sluicing also and the only people that were the least bit helpful was fish and game with regards to altering a stream bed and sediment. Which I don't agree with if you've ever seen california waters at flood season. Sorry for such a long first post but it seems like they make this whole process very complicated. I just want to go out and have some fun, and maybe find some gold.

Thanks guys any information is greatly appreciated!

 

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[Fullpan]

If a "greenie" or "eco-nazi" reads your post today, we will be grinning from ear-to-ear as he sips his second cup of coffee. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED ! He
has succeeded in making the laws so complex that even law enforcement, and the beauracratic agencies can't keep up. You now need to think practical - what
if I get challenged ? Do I have a video camera to document the encounter ? Do I have reams of downloaded documents (outdated or not) to make the LEO blink and think twice before citing me without being sure of his regulations ? Do I have a Public Lands for the People (PLP) membership card to flash ? Am I prepared to go before a judge and demand a jury trial (will most likely be "case dismissed") Or will you say its just not worth it, and give up. Your choice.

 

[Fullpan]

Sorry, I get so angry that I forgot - welcome to the forum !!

 

[Jeff95531]

LOL Fullpan

Yes! Welcome!

I was in your very shoes one year ago. I used to be a LEO, know how to look up regs. Ran into more and more red tape, more and more agencies all claiming they have jurisdiction over the other. Gave up and made my own plans. Here's the gist.

Copy everything you can find in your favor off the internet and carry it with you. If questioned, tell them it's all you could find.
Go only where you can be alone.
Take only what you are prepared to loose.
Respect other's claims.

It has worked very well for me so far

 

[KevinInColorado]

Great practical advice from Fullpan. Also go to the county assessor website to print off an up-close map of the area you are interested in with property boundaries. I then make notes on the names of key owners. This helps when you find that a LEO or local resident believes a property is owned by a person/entity but they are just mistaken.

For example, in my area some homeowners believe their back yard extends all the way to a creek when in fact it stops short...with the county or a park district owning a stripe of land along the creek. "Surprise"

 

[dredgeman]

Hi guys. Just getting started and Hopefully somebody can help me with some information.

My first question is are creeks and rivers public property outside of of the BLM and forest service land? Can you go gold panning or sluicing in most creeks? I have relatives that have property in Amador county that is on a creek not on federal land. Am I allowed to prospect without breaking any laws. I've read about the right to passage as long as you don't cross private land to get there. So, if I enter the creek on our property can I travel up and down to sluice within the creek?

I've read huge amounts of information and the more I read the more twisted everything becomes. I've talked to the blm, fish and game, amador county and everyone just seems to pass the buck for information. I have questions about high banking/power sluicing also and the only people that were the least bit helpful was fish and game with regards to altering a stream bed and sediment. Which I don't agree with if you've ever seen california waters at flood season. Sorry for such a long first post but it seems like they make this whole process very complicated. I just want to go out and have some fun, and maybe find some gold.

Thanks guys any information is greatly appreciated!

In answer to your question about the creeks of Calif. No you can not travel a creek or waterway onto peoples property for mineral extraction. Only navigable rivers are open for travel. If historically people used the river for commerce, then YES you can travel the river and the bottom is owned by the state.

Highbanking and motorized anything is basically dead at the moment. You will be harassed if the wrong agent walks up.

You can Pan at the moment. Read the DFG suction dredge page for the latest update. It says at the very end. If you move ANY material in a river, bank or stream you must notify DFW before digging.

Welcome to the forum and good luck

 

[fowledup]

Know what you mean, this past weekends adventure we had more copies of different CFR sections then we had tools to dig with. Although I have to admit, we kinda planned it that way as we fully expected that we would be harassed, but like the saying goes - it never happens when your prepared for it.

 

[khb19992000]

Busy day at work. Thanks for the welcome and all of the information guys!

So, I called the local city (as recommended by the county) and asked about the waterway. She told me that the waterway belongs to the state and that I was okay to traverse the water and pan/sluice for gold. From what I have found about navigable waterways is the boundaries are the "normal high water mark". As bad as the drought is around here I'm assuming this is good for me. I also found that navigable waterways are just as convoluted as everything else. =)

I also had a good 20 minute conversation with a lady from fish and game about gold prospecting. She told me that you only have to notify fish and game about altering the stream bed if you are changing it "significantly". Thats the key word and even she said that is a matter of interpretation and there is no hard fast rules. Shocking!!!!

Dredgeman - Am I reading the cdfg site wrong? I can only find the part about significantly altering the streamed or flow of water.

Once again thanks guys. I'm going to take your guys advice and bring with me all the information I have (and more to find) including the ladies name and number I talked to at the city. So hopefully I will be able to go out soon. And don't worry I will respect all claims. I've already searched that area, with a trip the blm office, and thats why I'm trying the route of public state land. It appeared that everything is claimed out for federal land and I don't even want to take the chance of landing on someone else's claim. Thanks again.

 

[mxer47]

The attention to claims is appreciated by all claim owners. I find doing any work prospecting it is best to avoid high traffic days (weekends and holidays) if it is at all possible. It is just easer avoiding hassles, and having to prove you have the right to be there. Welcome to t-net.

 

[Seden]

Dredgeman,

If the DFG has codified that into law then we have to obey it. I had heard that they were proposing to make that into a Reg. (still not a law and has less weight than a law in court)and tried to find it on the latest dredge news but couldn't find it. I haven't heard a peep out of PLP regarding this (yes I am a member).

I'll take another look and see at what stage of the process this is at.

 

[Hoser John]

Wandering around on someones creek on private property is a fine way to die young and the law be darned. Private property properly signed is 100% verboten,only exception is a short list of navigable water=rivers.There is NO excuse for mineral tresspass-a felony-so don't want to read about you in the papers and you DO NOT COME BACK--this is a one way road. Worth dying for??-John

 

[dredgeman]

khb

Read the dfg suction dredge page direct from a google search. The very end of the non motorized section. It is the new regulation that will be enforced more in March

 

[khb19992000]

Dredgeman - is this what you are talking about?

Mining Activity Not Prohibited by the Moratorium

The ongoing statutory moratorium established by Fish and Game Code section 5653.1 prohibits some, but not all forms of mining in and near California rivers, streams, and lakes.

Individuals engaged or interested in otherwise lawful instream mining should be aware that other environmental laws may apply to these various other mining practices. Fish and Game Code section 5650, for example, prohibits the placement of materials deleterious to fish, including sand and gravel from outside of the current water level, into the river or stream. Further, Fish and Game Code section 1602 requires that any person notify CDFW before substantially diverting or obstructing the natural flow of, or substantially changing or using any material from the bed, channel or bank of any river, stream or lake. See additional related information.

 

[khb19992000]

John - now I'm a little concerned. This is what I found pertaining to waterways. And isn't mineral trespass on mining claims. If I'm on state land that's public and not open to mineral claim wouldn't I be ok? So much research for a recreational activity. California sucks. Lol.

River Law: Who owns the rivers? River navigability law, for river access, river rights, river conservation, canoeing, kayaking, rafting, paddling, whitewater, and fly-fishing.

 

[rodoconnor]

khb I would be worth your time to look at the title report of your family's property to see who owns the mineral rights

 

[KevinInColorado]

khb I would be worth your time to look at the title report of your family's property to see who owns the mineral rights

good thought but keep in mind the debates about how mineral rights apply to use of "surface" materials (let's not get into the debate here just because I mentioned it!) and the fact that the state owns the river bed and wet banks of all navigable waterways regardless of what a deed may say. The link above is worth reading thru to the end to learn more about the long history here that is not open to groundless or even constructive debates about private property, etc.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The water itself belongs to the people of the State. The creek bed is still private property.

Only the navigable rivers are bottomed by State Land.

Not sure if the State of California allows open prospecting on their River bottoms but I seriously doubt it.

 

[KevinInColorado]

The water itself belongs to the people of the State. The creek bed is still private property. Only the navigable rivers are bottomed by State Land. Not sure if the State of California allows open prospecting on their River bottoms but I seriously doubt it.

well, sorta...

In the western states, the water is typically owned by a downstream user, not the state. The extreme of this is the Colorado RIver where all the water gets taken out by its owners before it gets to the Sea of Cortez!

Navigable applies to any waterway you can canoe on, even for short distances...or do other commercial/traditional activities such as floating logs down. This applies to a lot more than the major rivers and is based on historical (pre dams, etc) uses as per federal law. The state owns a lot more waterway beds than most people realize.