Buttons help please.

[Garabaldi]

Button's help please.

The eagle button has a little gold gild left to it. Its a two piece, so you think its War of 1812 or CW?

The other is a star and sunray two piece. Looks military to me. Any ideas on age and what kind of button. Baltimore has a star and sunray button I found in the Alberts button book.

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Button's help please.

Sorry to have to tell you, both of those buttons are definitely civilian "Fashion" buttons ...not military-issue buttons.

 

[Garabaldi]

Re: Button's help please.

What makes them civilian buttons?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Button's help please.

Garabaldi wrote:
> What makes them civilian buttons?

The "main" answer to your question:
Button-making companies manufactured them in response to customer-orders from the Civilian clothing industry, for use on "Fashion" clothing, such as men's sports-coats and blazers, etc. ("Fashion" clothing, meaning not work-clothes, nor any type of occupational uniform.)

A secondary answer to your question "What makes them civilian buttons?":
The exact buttons you dug do not appear in any of the various reference books on Military buttons. That's a very strong indication that there is no historical evidence that they were manufactured for use on Military-issue uniforms.

A third reason:
Although one of your buttons has the logo of a US Army 1832-to-1901 General Staff officer button, none of those US General Staff buttons has the specific "form" of your button. (The specific form of your 2-piece button is known as a "simulated 3-piece" or "false 3-piece" -- no US General Staff buttons had that form.) Your button is a civilian "Fashion" imitation of a US Military button.

 

[Garabaldi]

Re: Button's help please.

Garabaldi wrote:
> What makes them civilian buttons?

The "main" answer to your question:
Button-making companies manufactured them in response to customer-orders from the Civilian clothing industry, for use on "Fashion" clothing, such as men's sports-coats and blazers, etc. ("Fashion" clothing, meaning not work-clothes, nor any type of occupational uniform.)

A secondary answer to your question "What makes them civilian buttons?":
The exact buttons you dug do not appear in any of the various reference books on Military buttons. That's a very strong indication that there is no historical evidence that they were manufactured for use on Military-issue uniforms.

A third reason:
Although one of your buttons has the logo of a US Army 1832-to-1901 General Staff officer button, none of those US General Staff buttons has the specific "form" of your button. (The specific form of your 2-piece button is known as a "simulated 3-piece" or "false 3-piece" -- no US General Staff buttons had that form.) Your button is a civilian "Fashion" imitation of a US Military button.

Thank you very much for your response and extensive explanation. You sure know your buttons. I looked for it in the Alberts button book, but did not find this form also, so I agree.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Button's help please.

I found a couple of the first button. There are many different shield variations. They look like Officers Staff buttons but like CannonballGuy said, they are not military issued. Yours is 2 piece iron backed. One of mine is three piece the other is 2 but they are both modern shanks. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,295338.0.html

As CannonballGuy said in another post, they could be made for veterans looking for replacement buttons for their old uniforms to attend reunions and such since the military no longer made these buttons after 1902 wnen the Great Seal design came into use.


"I know of a good reason for small-ish numbers of these buttons to be produced in the early 20th-century. Civil War veterans and 1898 Spanish-American War veterans liked to wear their uniforms to Reunions/Conventions. But if a officer veteran lost an Original (Military) button from his old uniform after 1901, and he wanted to buy a replacement, he would be unable to get another Original, because none of those were being manufactured for the US Army after 1901. So, by their now-civilian customers' "special order," a button-making company manufactured some non-Regulation copies for the veterans who needed replacement buttons." quote CannonballGuy.

 

[Garabaldi]

Re: Button's help please.

I found a couple of the first button. There are many different shield variations. They look like Officers Staff buttons but like CannonballGuy said, they are not military issued. Yours is 2 piece iron backed. One of mine is three piece the other is 2 but they are both modern shanks. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,295338.0.html

As CannonballGuy said in another post, they could be made for veterans looking for replacement buttons for their old uniforms to attend reunions and such since the military no longer made these buttons after 1902 wnen the Great Seal design came into use.


"I know of a good reason for small-ish numbers of these buttons to be produced in the early 20th-century. Civil War veterans and 1898 Spanish-American War veterans liked to wear their uniforms to Reunions/Conventions. But if a officer veteran lost an Original (Military) button from his old uniform after 1901, and he wanted to buy a replacement, he would be unable to get another Original, because none of those were being manufactured for the US Army after 1901. So, by their now-civilian customers' "special order," a button-making company manufactured some non-Regulation copies for the veterans who needed replacement buttons." quote CannonballGuy.

Makes sense.