Button back mark help.

[Garabaldi]

Found an awesome button today and having trouble finding info on the maker. It says "TREBLE GILT ST(D) COL(R) J B" any ideas?

 

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[ivan salis]

typical flat button design --triple gold gilt plated ---british made button of "standard colour" of the 1820 to 1830 era -- JB is most likely the english maker's name

 

[Garabaldi]

typical flat button design --triple gold gilt plated ---british made button of "standard colour" of the 1820 to 1830 era -- JB is most likely the english maker's name

How do you know so much about buttons? Great info. How did you come up with the date range and British?
Thanks ivan.

 

[RelicHunter97]

Probably Josiah Baldwin ca. 1800-1810

or John Boylan ca. 1850-1885

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I believe this type of button dates from the 1790s to the very-early 1840s. So, I'd go with Josiah Baldwin as the manufacturer. The McGuinn-&-Bazelon book on backmarks says Josiah Baldwin had a US Gov't. contract for "large and small Artillery buttons in 1804." Although this button is a Civilian type, it fits the early-1800s time period better than Boylan (1850-1885). This one-piece form of button rapidly fell out of favor in the late 1830s, when advances in button-making machinery caused "stylishly ornate" stamped brass 2-piece buttons to become inexpensive enough to be easily affordable by the general public.

 

[ivan salis]

I too would go with the 1800 to 1840 date range --although still made and used after the late 1830's * flat buttons were thought of as "out of fashion" as newer "fancier" designs 2 piece designs became more affordible and popular . -- with that thought in mind -- I say most likely Josiah Baldwin 1800 - 1810 * -- but the other John Boylan (1850 - 1885) can not be ruled out if the button was found in the south -- since the south imported lots of buttons from england during the civil war.

the war of 1812 showed americans just how dependant we were upon the british for buttons -- during the war there was a serious "button shortage" for both military and civilian use --and so SCOVILL the big US button maker along with others started making "american" made buttons (especially for the military) -- the thought of the time being --its not good to be dependant upon another country to makemilitary "supplies" (in this case buttons) needed by the USA military because in case of war we can be "cut off" --having regular steady govt military contracts helped get SCOVILL and other US button makers get up and going

in the civil war with most of the american button makers being in northern states under union control , the south was forced to get buttons from england via "blockade runners" --the "button shortage" in the south meant that any and all buttons were used and reused off old garments --many popular older 1830 era "flower" buttons were used on confederate uniforms stitched on by mothers, wives, girlfreinds and even the soldiers themselves .

items found along with the button in the general area might help to tip it towards one of the two JB button makers "time frames"-- are more early 1800's (1800 /1810) or more civil warish era ( 1850 /1885) items found there?

buttons are area "time markers-- three main items can help tell me what time period a area was used by humans -- coinage , buttons and pottery * are all of interest to me as "time stamp type material"

 

[Garabaldi]

I too would go with the 1800 to 1840 date range --although still made and used after the late 1830's * flat buttons were thought of as "out of fashion" as newer "fancier" designs 2 piece designs became more affordible and popular . -- with that thought in mind -- I say most likely Josiah Baldwin 1800 - 1810 * -- but the other John Boylan (1850 - 1885) can not be ruled out if the button was found in the south -- since the south imported lots of buttons from england during the civil war.

the war of 1812 showed americans just how dependant we were upon the british for buttons -- during the war there was a serious "button shortage" for both military and civilian use --and so SCOVILL the big US button maker along with others started making "american" made buttons (especially for the military) -- the thought of the time being --its not good to be dependant upon another country to makemilitary "supplies" (in this case buttons) needed by the USA military because in case of war we can be "cut off" --having regular steady govt military contracts helped get SCOVILL and other US button makers get up and going

in the civil war with most of the american button makers being in northern states under union control , the south was forced to get buttons from england via "blockade runners" --the "button shortage" in the south meant that any and all buttons were used and reused off old garments --many popular older 1830 era "flower" buttons were used on confederate uniforms stitched on by mothers, wives, girlfreinds and even the soldiers themselves .

items found along with the button in the general area might help to tip it towards one of the two JB button makers "time frames"-- are more early 1800's (1800 /1810) or more civil warish era ( 1850 /1885) items found there?

buttons are area "time markers-- three main items can help tell me what time period a area was used by humans -- coinage , buttons and pottery * are all of interest to me as "time stamp type material"

I would think it would be "Josiah Baldwin 1800 - 1810 *", because I have found mostly mid 1600's artifacts. I found a couple other buttons along with this one, check them out. Thanks for all the help on this.

 

[ivan salis]

ah i see some 1810 to 1830ish plate bits (blue stuff) british made sheffeild is most likely --

the one button looks like a sort of "flower" type button pouplar in the 1830 era --

see lots of 1800 to 1865 era goodies ther -- whats marked on the fork ? --on the rear normally is a makers mark & info

if your finding 1600 stuff there --you might have either a 1600 thru say civil war era steadily lived at used site or a two times used site (co mingled)-- used during one time frame (say 1600's) - then later used during another time frame (say 1800 onward toward the civil war era)

remember what makes a good site during one time frame -- often still makes it a good spot later on --thus " a good living or trading or camping spot" tends to get reused over and over again

that white crockery was highly popular say1880 thru 1930 era * so folks lived (or hung around there) there i would say at least from 1800 to at least 1946 ( thats when the rosie dime came out --not seeing the actual date on it but has to be at least till then )

 

[Garabaldi]

ah i see some 1810 to 1830ish plate bits (blue stuff) british made sheffeild is most likely --

the one button looks like a sort of "flower" type button pouplar in the 1830 era --

see lots of 1800 to 1865 era goodies ther -- whats marked on the fork ? --on the rear normally is a makers mark & info

if your finding 1600 stuff there --you might have either a 1600 thru say civil war era steadily lived at used site or a two times used site (co mingled)-- used during one time frame (say 1600's) - then later used during another time frame (say 1800 onward toward the civil war era)

remember what makes a good site during one time frame -- often still makes it a good spot later on --thus " a good living or trading or camping spot" tends to get reused over and over again

that white crockery was highly popular say1880 thru 1930 era * so folks lived (or hung around there) there i would say at least from 1800 to at least 1946 ( thats when the rosie dime came out --not seeing the actual date on it but has to be at least till then )

Ivan,
I want to thank you for writing so extensively on this post, great input.
This site has been popular from 165o's up until present day. I have posted about 5% percent of what I have found at this site on this forum. I have found many Colonial British coppers King Geor I, II and III, Scottish bawbee penny, Irish Hibernia, Connecticut Copper, 1737 Spanish Pistareen, two draped bust large cents, William and Mary copper, Farthing, 50 or so flat buttons, some large Dandy ones. Found two early 1600's spoon bowls. Nice ramrod clip, 6 gold rings, two large silver bracelets. Then there is a void of early USA silver. Oldest USA silver I found is a 1804 barber dime. 1 SLQ, a few Washington Quarters, tons of Merc Dimes and Rossie dimes. Over 100 wheat pennies. A couple of old buckles, trapazoid etc... Musket balls, three ringers tons of bale seals. Endless pottery chards, nearly every hole.
The fork did not seem old, so I didn't bother.