Button age and ID?(Updated info)

[Don in SJ]

I found this one several years ago and thought I had an age and ID for it but If I had I no longer remember nor have it marked anywhere. Any help?

18mm, convex, one piece, backmark PLATED and backmark the letters C & H not G & H as is texted on the photo, both in a cartouche.

Don

Update: Still have no idea what the button is as far as the possible RC script on it. But I am more certain on the date range now.
Based on the cotter pin type shank, based on the cartouche backmarks, and the crown being iffy on its age, I am leaning towards 1795-1815 era.

On Page 264, Plate D-36-7 of "Dating Buttons" by Warren Tice, is a photo of a button with very similar style backmarks in a cartouche. Cartouche were used mostly from that time frame.
The cotter pin type shank has no foot as a later 1820's era button usually has.

So hopefully I can narrow down the search for the ID of the button to the early 1800's to War of 1812 era.

Don

 

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[CRUSADER]

Re: Button age and ID?

1820-1830 I think, from the top of my head

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Button age and ID?

1820-1830 I think, from the top of my head

LOL, off the top of your head how about an ID?

I do find it curious you said 1820-1830, based on the crown? the backmark?, the shank style?

Don

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Button age and ID?

1820-1830 I think, from the top of my head

LOL, off the top of your head how about an ID?

I do find it curious you said 1820-1830, based on the crown? the backmark?, the shank style?

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Button age and ID?

Thanks Crusader, I used to have a website saved that showed the different style crowns and the periods they were used but darn if I could find it this time.
Now, what is the button, can you make out the initials on it? For years I have guessed, have trouble with the wear and them being in script.

Don

 

[wesfrye53]

Re: Button age and ID?

Don,

I thought you kept detailed records of your finds! That back pain getting to ya Buddy?

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Button age and ID?

Don,

I thought you kept detailed records of your finds! That back pain getting to ya Buddy?

Wes LOL, very detailed records on coin finds but I have never been good on my relics, which I kick myself in the buttocks many times for not doing so. You know, oh, I will not forgot, NOT.

My son keeps a diary book of all his finds, and I probably should have also, but to go back to 1979 in my memory banks, is too much, my bad, record keeping is a must, the memory computer seems to crash too often.

For those who don't know, I use a MS Excel S/S for all my coin finds, it has worked well all these years, but I tried doing it with relics and just have not had the same luck in maintaining it, probably because so many are unknown and by the time you find out what it is, months or years have gone by. Slightly different than record keeping for coins.

I do have photos of most of my finds, and usually can figure out where they were found from the pics, however, I only started digital camera shooting of my finds around 2001!

Don

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Button age and ID?

I PMed Wess, he maybe able to help.

I thought it was a RC or LC but can't see the first letter very well.

The problem I am having is it reminds me of some of the later Police Buttons I have & the C could then stand for Constabulary?? But doesn't make sence with the early date unless I'm wrong on the crown?

C could be Corp?

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Button age and ID?

I PMed Wess, he maybe able to help.

I thought it was a RC or LC but can't see the first letter very well.

The problem I am having is it reminds me of some of the later Police Buttons I have & the C could then stand for Constabulary?? But doesn't make sence with the early date unless I'm wrong on the crown?

C could Corp?

OK, I wanted some opinions before I said my thoughts, I think it is RC, but again not sure, even looking at it the first letter is hard to say what it is looking in person at the button. With that said, I am not sure about the crown being that age, reason being, when someone tenatively ID'd it years ago, I believe it was given an earlier time frame.

Now, the backmark, I know the backmark of PLATED in a cartouche was used in the late 1700's, so I was thinking more late 1700 due to the cartouche,and the letters in cartouche are still the answer but dang cannot find any maker with that backmark. Also there were brass Military British buttons with sunrays, somewhat simlar in Don Troiani's Rev War book, but I will have to look later. The shanks attachment should be an age clue. ( I know, it is a Heinz 57 mixture button of 3 different eras) (Just kiddin)

But regardless of the date/era, I think knowing the purpose is more important, so for now I would concentrate on RC and in Military terms, since the sunrays appears to be that with the crown?

Don

 

[ColonialDude]

Re: Button age and ID?

Interesting button Don. Can't say I recognize it however.

I can however narrow it down a little perhaps.

It's the same crown used on 1812 period buttons...and based on the fact there is a backmark, as well as the style of button...we can say it's no earlier than 1790. I would say it falls between 1800 and 1820.

As for the letters on the front, it's a tough call. I can't make out the first letter. R

The backmark of G&H is not familiar to me at all. Are you certain it's G&H? Interesting.

I will do some research on this button tonight when I have some time and see if I can come up with anything.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Button age and ID?

I agree with "R C"

I have been looking... but have nothing possitive to report...

I need some button books... dang.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Button age and ID?

Wes said: "The backmark of G&H is not familiar to me at all. Are you certain it's G&H? Interesting."

Well, upon further review it must be a funky C so look for C & H I am 100% positive on the & H part of it, the C looks like G but these old eyes are worn out and under better lighting and magnificaton it looks like a fancy style C

Don

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Button age and ID?

Back to the top...

 

[Don in SJ]

Update, I have had a few experienced collectors look at the photos and got several different answers on age! But the consensus now is more towards post 1800 to 1815, most likely associated with War of 1812 era, however one expert has it later than 1815. I presently have a few British collectors trying to come up with the ID of the button which is more of what I wanted in the first place.

There is still disagreement amongst those who have seen the photos as to the what the letters are, darn script!!, I am still leaning towards RC, but dang, not sure about the R, one collector thinks it is BC.. Well, I took some more photos again this morning, and the first initial is so worn down, it is just hard to make out, but I still think it is an R, but now not sure about the second letter being a C, could be a G?

Hopefully, the collectors of the British button clubs that are getting the photos this week will come up with the answer, you would think that more of these buttons would have been found previously and someone would recognize it.

I also got a photo of the complete manufacturer back mark an C & H appears to be it, not G & H.....

Still looking for help on this one...

Don

 

[Montana Jim]

Thanks for the follow-up Don... Again - You may have ended up with an extreamly rare example of an extremy rare button!

Who knows... Good work so far!

Jim