Butt Plate

[Keith123]

Found what I think is my first butt plate. Posted in "what is it" earlier and hopeful to get a positive ID. Found it in an area with no known military activity but lots of history. I haven't really searched the area thoroughly but my buddy found a flat button with cloth still attached not to far from where I found the butt plate.

 

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[Vino]

Great find. Its a great feeling holding that in your hand.
Congrats, nice save.
George

 

[Erik in NJ]

Damned nice save there!

 

[PA Sleuth]

Nice find there, found my first this summer, are there any markings?

 

[relic lover]

You're on a great spot tell your buddy you got covered in ticks and stung by bees there so he should not bother to return.

 

[Loco-Digger]

The barrel may be close? did you swing the whole area?

 

[Keith123]

Nice find there, found my first this summer, are there any markings?

No markings

 

[Keith123]

The barrel may be close? did you swing the whole area?

It was my first time there and very rocky (hard to walk) so I was cherry picking the area. Gonna go back and dig it all!

 

[Billinoregon]

Keith, that is a wonderful find. Buttplates like that are signature parts. I'll bet you can identify it and the musket it came from.

 

[relic nut]

Very cool find! That is on my wish list. Keep us updated on what else you find there.

 

[against the wind]

Nice recovery.
Slippery rocky areas can lead to a nasty accident and injury. That may have caused the owner to leave his property behind.

 

[Billinoregon]

Keith, here is what a friend who is well-versed on Colonial arms and material culture had to say:
PAUL C. DAIUTE » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:33 am
Bill,
Shooting from the hip, (pun intended), real quick like the butt plate shape is similar to the butt of the British light infantry fusil which was a 1745 pattern. The lock plate could also have been reworked and shaped from similar lock plates found on British arms of the times. I am kinda pulling this one out of my butt, ( pun intended once again). If it is British you may find inspector's ID marks as well as Roman numeral part marks on the inside of the butt. Butt maybe not. (what do you think?).
Paul

 

[romeo-1]

That is a very cool find! I love finding gun parts and so far have not found a complete butt plate.

 

[Ed (Upstate NY)]

I agree with billinoregon. Looks similar to British light infantry carbine style, c 1757. Check out Newman's Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution, page 212, illustration #7.

 

[sutphin]

VERY NICE FIND THERE FREIND HOPE TO RECOVERY ONE MYSELF ONE DAY . CONGRATS......

 

[Keith123]

I agree with billinoregon. Looks similar to British light infantry carbine style, c 1757. Check out Newman's Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution, page 212, illustration #7.

Would you mind posting a link? I tried to search both references.

 

[Keith123]

Keith, here is what a friend who is well-versed on Colonial arms and material culture had to say:
PAUL C. DAIUTE » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:33 am
Bill,
Shooting from the hip, (pun intended), real quick like the butt plate shape is similar to the butt of the British light infantry fusil which was a 1745 pattern. The lock plate could also have been reworked and shaped from similar lock plates found on British arms of the times. I am kinda pulling this one out of my butt, ( pun intended once again). If it is British you may find inspector's ID marks as well as Roman numeral part marks on the inside of the butt. Butt maybe not. (what do you think?).
Paul

Thanks for the info!

 

[Keith123]

After having a closer look, there may be some kind of marking on the inside of the plate.

 

[49r Relics]

Nice ID guys (Bill & Ed). A very real connection to the past, congrats!!

 

[Tejaas]

The email information posted above is (kind of) a reiteration of what i posted over in your other thread regarding your piece:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4746192

Attaching any kind of -specific- date to your plate is impossible without proofs/cartouches/inspector/arsenal/organizational markings - your going to get a range at best, which has been determined... And it is simply not reasonable to believe that one can determine what 'model' your plate came off of by the plate alone. I accounted for the range of musket pattern possibilities over on the other post i did (imbedded link above).

Furthermore, for those who may be unaware - a 'fusil' is nothing more than what would later be known as a carbine.

Someone above mentioned the words 'carbine-type'. Yes sir (as you seem to be aware) that in regards to the British Empire, a fusil was simply an adaptation of the standard issue longarm via a reduction of the OAL of the barrel for improvements in maneuverability. The 'Brown Bess' was THE standard issue longarm of this time, and the specifically-dated examples mentioned in the previous postings are just two of these adaptations.

'Brown Bess' pattern variations and their issuance was dictated by the utilizing party - 'Fusils' were namely found amongst dragoons, fusiliers/artillery escorts, and marine/naval boarding parties at this time. These fusils were/are better known as 'Short' or 'Light' Land Pattern Muskets... Again, just one of the many patterns of the Brown Bess.

If you like comparisons, think of the Single Action Army colt revolvers... existing in 'patterns' such as the Artillery, Cavalry, Gunfighter, Storekeeper and Target models... At the end of the day, they are all still a Colt SAA.

No disrespect intended here, but the gentleman who offered the information via email didn't seem too confident in his abilities... He was on the right track, but quite frankly his specific naming of any connection to a 'fusil' was a reach for sure.

Without playing the diversionary 'state your credentials' game, i will again say with confidence that based upon the screw count & pattern, the specific contour and shouldering of the tang, and the pronounced heel - your plate is from one of the Brown Bess patterns and that given your location you may most certainly attach a American Revolution provenance and not be labeled a 'dreamer' or 'wishful thinker'.

And once again, beautiful find!





~Tejaas~