bullet i.d.

[ironhorse]

Over the years I've dug many different bullets( muzzleloaded, and high velocity) as far as muzzle loaders go a lot of them are similar in looks and design. this year I found a pair of bullets that I can say that I've never seen before, although they are similar in size to miniballs, the design is diferent In the past I've discovered bullets with no rings(smooth sides), one, two, three and four, but never six....just wondering if these came from short lived model from the end of the muzzleloading era, or if they were just a variety of slug that was used elsewhere more than here

these were found on a site dating from the late 1700's (Rev War ) to present day with most finds coming from the 1800's

these date from the mid 1800's I believe, and were discovered in eastern Canada
any info would be appreciated

 

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[vayank54]

Never seen any like those. What do the inside of the bases look like? I am wondering if they could be some type of Enfield. Even though I know Enfield's didn't have rings. They just remind me of Enfields for some reason. Hopefully someone will know what they are.

 

[DCMatt]

Can you give the caliber or measurements? Also a pic of the bottom might help with the ID...

DCMatt

 

[ironhorse]

pretty close to an Enfield, and Snider


here's more pics
core appears to be a baked clay like terra cotta, I've seen wooden core,, iron core and a similar type to this in a kind of ceramic?, but this one is kinda new to me

 

[vayank54]

Weird. I can't imagine why they were made like that. I had no idea they had a hole in the nose. Hopefully someone will be able to ID them

 

[ironhorse]

I think you have a Snider-Enfield

The ammunition for the Snider-Enfield was designed by Colonel Edward Boxer. It was revolutionary because it was a self-contained cartridge, holding the bullet, black powder and primer ignition cap all in one case. The case consisted of a layer of thin brass and paper which was made into a roll. A cup of slightly heavier brass was placed at the bottom. The two parts were then fastened to a brass washer with a hollow rivet that became the primer pocket. The case was loaded with 85 grains of black powder and had a 480-grain bullet. The bullet was of a .573-inch diameter, with a clay plug in its hollow base to expand it to the diameter of the barrel, .577 inches, when fired.

Because of the new system the bullet needed better balance in flight. So, at first, a boxwood plug in the tip of the bullet was used. This was replaced by a hollow in the bullet nose which was covered by spinning lead over it. The hollow point had the effect of causing the lead bullet to expand when hitting soft tissue, causing stigma and treaties banning the use of expanding ammunition.

The first shipment of 30,000 Snider-Enfield rifles arrived in Canada in the summer of 1867.


https://s3-us2.ixquick.com/do/show_...ng.com/Barracks/Armoury/Snider/SNIDER577.jpeg



I can't find a picture of JUST the bullet for you, it's not terribly common, and I don't think I have ever handled one.

You have the very early version with the wooden plug in the nose..
The clay plug was to enhance expansion to the barrel diameter for gas seal.

I am aware of the cartridge system that was in place for the later muzzleloaders, although this is a different from the rest of the other sorts of bullets, I thought it might have a different name or assocation other than Enfield/Snider bullets; I guess I'll simply refer to it as a version of Enfield

thanks for your input

 

[vayank54]

Thanks Rando
I learned something today. They were experimenting with so many different things in that time period you just never know. I had over 300 different types of civil war bullets at one time and still didn't have them all. I've dug and seen some others dug that aren't in the books and no one has any idea what they are.. Cool find Ironhorse. Maybe you'll get some more cool bullets out of that spot.

 

[Monty]

Dang, I've played with bullets new and old all my life and I have never seen any of these. Obviously molded for a specific reason. The hollow points would suggest whoever made the bullets was wanting fast expansion. But it is plain to see that this bullet would probably shed its lead covering pretty quick and expose the "stuff" in the middle if it was driven at rifle velocities. I agree with the statement about all the experimenting going on during this time frame. When shooters began switching over to smokeless powder from black powder they found that because of the increase in velocity the old style bullets would just zip right through a game animal doing minimal damage. So, they were seeking a means to impart more energy into the animal to assure quick kills and not have to endlessly track wounded animals. Not until jacketed bullets came along did they completely solve this problem. That being said, I am guessing these bullets were an early attempt to overcome the problem posed, probably before the turn of the century when jacketed bullets became available. And on the other hand, some handloader may have been experimenting on his own to keep using the old style cast lead bullets due to the expense of the jacketed bullets. Many early hunters cast their own projectiles out of necessity during that era. I am hoping someone will come up with a better solution because I would like to know myself! Monty

 

[vayank54]

I was loking through Mac Mason's bullet book and opage 62 there are 2 bullets with holes in the nose both foriegn but they are saying they are explsive bullets. the could be msitaken on that and they could be something like Rando was talking about with the Enfield Snider. Incidently on that same page is a CS explosive #533 & 534. They are extremly rare and we always thought they were late war bullets but I dug 3 complete and a couple heads and a buddy of mine dug one complete in an 1861 Georgia camp near Manassas.