Bullet help please and thank you.

[fyrffytr1]

I know it's not much to go on but here goes. I found this bullet today at the Spanish-American war camp site we have been hunting. The only measurements I can give you are the weight and approximate diameter of the base. It weighs 185.6 grains and the base measures anywhere from .36 to .44". There are two cannelures, one is just above the base and is all but gone. The other is visible about 1/4" above the base. I know it is post 1870 by the ridges in the cannelure but that is all.

 

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[ScubaDetector]

In MY opinion, you are looking at a very modern bullet. Modern by being after the 1900's. No idea on size but the crimp rings give it away as to newer.

All the older bullets I have found have smooth rings.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

post 1880 to mid 1900's based on the patina, what it originally was will likely be near impossible to determine. whatever it hit it hit it hard...

 

[fyrffytr1]

We have been finding 45-70 rim fire shell casings in the area but those bullets weigh between 400 and 500 grains. I want it to be a pistol round from that 1898-99 time period but will never know for sure.

 

[ScubaDetector]

We have been finding 45-70 rim fire shell casings in the area but those bullets weigh between 400 and 500 grains. I want it to be a pistol round from that 1898-99 time period but will never know for sure.

It won't be from that time period. It is newer. 45-70 RIM fire? Do you have a picture of one? I have only found center fire ones and mine are dated 1886. I have never seen a rim fire 45-70

It looks like the rim fire 45-70's were made in the 1870's Not the late 1890's

http://www.oldammo.com/november04.htm

 

[fyrffytr1]

Scuba,
You will just have to overlook me. Evidently, my fingers type something other than what my mind is thinking. The 45-70s we find at this site are indeed center fires. I have even called them pin fires in the past.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Scuba,
You will just have to overlook me. Evidently, my fingers type something other than what my mind is thinking. The 45-70s we find at this site are indeed center fires. I have even called them pin fires in the past.

When I first stated typing I was thinking you were mistaken. I had no idea there were rim fire 45-70's. I then looked it up and found indeed there was, however they were older than the Spanish American War. So I was letting you know yours were older than you thought. I enjoy looking things up and learning. Not trying to frustrate or upset anyone. I too have found a Spanish American War era camp on a lake. All my bullets were live and I also got a Springfield trap door bayonet and a few buttons. This was in Michigan.

I apologize if I came across wrong. Not my intention at all, learning and helping others is.

 

[fyrffytr1]

When I first stated typing I was thinking you were mistaken. I had no idea there were rim fire 45-70's. I then looked it up and found indeed there was, however they were older than the Spanish American War. So I was letting you know yours were older than you thought. I enjoy looking things up and learning. Not trying to frustrate or upset anyone. I too have found a Spanish American War era camp on a lake. All my bullets were live and I also got a Springfield trap door bayonet and a few buttons. This was in Michigan.

I apologize if I came across wrong. Not my intention at all, learning and helping others is.

No apology needed. I have even called a rim fire a pin fire when showing it to one of my detecting buddies. And, I was under the impression that the ridges first appeared in the grooves in the 1870s so I have learned something else from this discussion.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Just trying to be helpful here. I've never heard of an actual .45-70 rimfire-primer casing. The .45-70 cartridges from the 1870s shown at the oldammo.com webpage linked by ScubaDetector
http://www.oldammo.com/november04.htm
are not rimfire-primer. Lacking an external centerfire primer-cup, they look like rimfire, but are actually "inside-primed" with the Benet primer. A Benet-primed casing is visually distinguished by having a semi-circle crimp mark a little bit above the casing's base-rim. That crimp is visible in the oldammo.com photo.

About the "ridges," also called a "reeded groove" or a "knurled cannelure":
Wanting to learn when reeded/knurled-groove bullet first start showing up in America, several years ago I searched through the entire oldammo/cartridge-collector website. The earliest date I could find was 1877. Have you come across a reliable info-source which contradicts that date?

 

[ScubaDetector]

No I haven't found an exact date. I do know the reeded groove were on 30 cal bullets back to 1909 with full metal jackets. I have found lots of live ones with that date from the Lewis Machine gun. I haven't found any solid lead bullets with the reeded crimp grooves with the bullets I have been finding from the late 1800's. I do have a few live and a lot of fired 45-70's and 45's from the 1800's. None have reeded grooves.

My understanding was the reeded ones didn't come out till the early 1900's. However, I only have gone on what I have read and we all know there are no mistakes on the internet!