✅ SOLVED Bullet cartridge caliber/history needed

[cti4sw]

I found this in a residential area, homes were built in the 1920s and 1930s, I originally thought it was a .50 caliber shell but there's no markings save one tiny little "5" on the rim.

For shape reference - the top tapered part is broken off, it's about 2.5" tall now


For caliber reference - maybe the size of a dime


For caliber ID - No markings! Except that tiny little etch I think is a "5"

 

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[skeeterd]

The caliber would be measured by the inside of the case mouth and yours is missing. The case is tapered so it is most likely a necked cartridge. What seems odd to me about this casing is that the primer isn't dented from the firing pin. In other words this cartridge was never fired from a gun. It may have gone through a fire. When a live round is burned, the bullet doesn't go anywhere, but the case does. Sometimes the case will rupture or tear apart at the weakest point. That might be what happened to yours. Others may know more than I do, but I hope this helps alittle anyway.

 

[pistol-pete]

Would have thought it was a 50 Cal. BMG, but that is the oddest primer I ever saw in a 50. Looks, or is foreign, which it could well be as several countries made them. In looking again it could be the 12.5mm? Russian round which is close to being the same. Do you have calipers or something to measure the head in .001" ? That is the only way to tell for sure..?? Go back and see if you can find the rest of the cartridge, if it were a live round when buried the remainder would be in the same spot. Like to hear.

 

[arnofarrell]

I agree with skeeterd, itis going to be hard to find out the size because you dont have the full casing. In regard to the bullet being burned it seems plausible. I was burning my ditches a couple years ago and when I got done with an area I would walk around and see what I could find. I had burned about a half dozen shot gun shells and they did not explode the fire just burned a hole in the sides and burned up the powder. Back to your find, it will be hard to find out what size it is with out the front part. Alot of shells are simular insize at the base but are diffrent at the long end.

 

[skeeterd]

A nickle measures .835 inches and a .50BMG is .804 inches on the case head. So the case seems to match the .50 cal. with you're picture comparing the two. An actual measurement would be needed though. I'm with Pete on the primer, looks unusual to me. Maybe a crimped military primer?

 

[cti4sw]

As you can see it's a hair shorter than .80, I would say in the .775 range, or about 19.5 mm.



The tapered part (a tiny part is left) tapers in about 1mm on all "sides", and since the area right before the taper is 16mm, 16 - 2 = 14, so I would say the taper was about 14mm wide. The round it contained was probably about 12mm in diameter. Thoughts?

 

[skeeterd]

Can you post a pic or two of the missing end so we can see what the taper looks like?

 

[cti4sw]

 

[skeeterd]

I'm still stumped. Nothing in my books show a case head over .608 with the exception of the .50 BMG. Hopefully someone will chime in that knows more than I do!

 

[cti4sw]

Would that Cannonballguy would make an appearance :]

 

[osage express]

Hello I think you have a 13mm Mauser single shot anti tank Rifle bigger then 50 BMG.It is the first anti tank Rifle made WW1.It is called Thor like Thor the thunder god Hope this help ........Osage

 

[cti4sw]

Hello I think you have a 13mm Mauser single shot anti tank Rifle bigger then 50 BMG.It is the first anti tank Rifle made WW1.It is called Thor like Thor the thunder god Hope this help ........Osage

Did the rims lack inscriptions for those rounds? Or was that typical for foreign ammunition?

Wikipedia says that the Mauser M1918 was 92mm long... if I set the calipers to 92mm and lay the shell casing inside, it does look like a plausible length if the round is included. It also says that the round's caliber was .525 and samples of the rifle can be found in a few museums around the world, including the Patton Museum in Fort Knox. Only about 16k of these rifles were made.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Cti4sw wrote:
> Would that Cannonballguy would make an appearance :]

I was silent because I did not have the information you desired. My study area has been "antique" projectiles ...which to me means pre-20th-Century. I was born about 30 years after the end of World War One, so that era doesn't seem "antique" to me. ;-)

My knowledge of projectiles (and cartridges) gets thin after the first decade of the 1900s. After that, the ENORMOUS expansion of cartridge types overwhelms my brain.

That being said, I've found the following website very useful for ID-info about 20th-Century Militaria relics. Y'all probably will too, so I'll share the link with you. WW2 German, Soviet, Allied militaria, uniforms, awards, weapons history. War relics forum

 

[cti4sw]

I was silent because I did not have the information you desired. My study area has been "antique" projectiles ...which to me means pre-20th-Century. I was born about 30 years after the end of World War One, so that era doesn't seem "antique" to me. ;-)

My knowledge of projectiles (and cartridges) gets thin after the first decade of the 1900s. After that, the ENORMOUS expansion of cartridge types overwhelms my brain.

That being said, I've found the following website very useful for ID-info about 20th-Century Militaria relics. Y'all probably will too, so I'll share the link with you. WW2 German, Soviet, Allied militaria, uniforms, awards, weapons history. War relics forum

THERE HE IS!!!

Point taken. I'm about half your age, and even I don't consider much post-1900 to be "antiquated" quite yet. It's okay though, I think that Osage has pretty much nailed it. I only wish that the Patton Museum had some sort of online contact rather than snail mail or the phone.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Here's a pic of what a 13mm German round head stamp and primer should look like. Yours is a bit different. Yours almost looks like it has a 209 shot shell primer in it. I'm willing to bet that what you actually have is a WW2 era Japanese 13.2 mm round for their big Hotchkiss machine gun. The second picture is one of those for comparison of the primers.......

German

Japanese

 

[cti4sw]

Ok... I'm glad you found/had some to show comparisons, that's what I would have contacted the museum for. You're right, the Mauser shell doesn't have that inner rim surrounding the primer, and mine does. However, mine also has a smaller primer than the Japanese round in your picture; not sure if that makes a huge difference or not.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Ok... I'm glad you found/had some to show comparisons, that's what I would have contacted the museum for. You're right, the Mauser shell doesn't have that inner rim surrounding the primer, and mine does. However, mine also has a smaller primer than the Japanese round in your picture; not sure if that makes a huge difference or not.

I'm not sure if the primers are different sizes, but the crimp rings around them definitely are. I have a theory, just a theory, that yours could be a late war production and wasn't crimped as well as the earlier one. That might also explain the lack of a detailed headstamp. Japanese production standards went WAY downhill toward the end of the war to the point that many of the late war weapons are not safe to fire even in mint condition.

 

[cti4sw]

Could be, I'm willing to bet mine is a war souvenir someone brought home with them and subsequently lost in their backyard. I'm also willing to bet that instead of it being lost, it was thrown out in the fire pit, which would account for the weakened state of the brass/copper that the taper fragmented when I pulled it out of the ground. Next time I go back to that house I'll definitely be looking for the rest of it.

Guess I can say this is solved, then?

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Could be, I'd like to think the guy picked it up out on the battlefield like that, out of a burned out machine gun nest or something. (I just like cool relic stories) It would be neat if the rest is there though.

 

[pistol-pete]

I've looked through my collection of 50's. Only one has a primer like that and it is an English made ICI 55 Shallow headstamp. Not deep Hs as American ones are. As to the 13mm German AT!! It IS a rimmed cartridge. So that eliminates it. It still could be a 13.2mm Jap. I don't have one to measure. Now we are nearly sure it is one of those two, probably picked up live somewhere and dropped where you found it. Still think the projectile would be close by where the case was.