Buckleboy is Bullet STUMPED!

[BuckleBoy]

Hello All!

I do pretty well with CW bullet ID's, but here are two that I've had for a while--I'm stumped.

First one is similar in size to a .58 cal Minieball (Minie on the left, unknown bullet on the right in the photos below). It appears to have a flatter nose than any other Minie I have found, plus there is a little "nipple" on the top of the bullet. This one was dropped, and recovered from a plowed field. The base cavity is cone shaped, but the outer rim of the base is a little more thick than a normal Minie. This is the only one of its kind I have ever found.







The next type of bullet has been a puzzler for over 10 years. I've showed it to some bullet gurus, and no one has been able to give me an ID. .58 cal Minieball is again on the left for size comparison. This one is fired. I have found 30 of these bullets--all at the same site--and all within a 20 square foot area. They were on a hillside interspersed among literally hundreds of fired .58 cal Minies and cleaner bullets at a CW target practice site, so I am absolutely certain that they were fired by the CW troops there. The base of them is flat. Any ideas are much appreciated.










Regards,


Buckleboy

 

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[Monty]

The only possible thing I can think of from the second sample smaller bullets is the Union repeating rifles. The union did have a few fighting units outfitted with repeating rifles. They are the only weapon I can think of that might have been able to pour in that amount of lead into such a small area. There should be spent rimfire cartridges or the remains of same down range some where. If there is any way to determine the angle of deflection, you could check randomly at different distances down range. If you find just one fired hull it could answer your puzzle. Monty

 

[BuckleBoy]

Monty,

The force camped there was quite large, and I think they just had enough folks there firing at a makeshift target that there ended up being that much lead there. The only three bullet types found were the regular minie, the cleaner bullet, and the one in the second set of photos above. That little bullet I only found 30 examples of, out of several hundred other bullets of the other two types I just mentioned...so in terms of how frequent it is--not very. Some hunts there I dig 30-40 minies and cleaners without finding one of the little ones.

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Monty]

How do the small bullets measure out? Measure the grooves that will be the reverse on the bullet or the sticky out parts where it went down the barrel. With a caliper measure around a bullet in 3 places and then average them. That will give you the bore diameter. If it's .429 to .444 it's probably a repeating rifle. If it's .450 to .455, it's probabliy a .45-70. My first thought was.45-70 but I misunderstood and read your post wrong and thought you said there was dozens of them in a small area. OOPS! Also, the sharpshooters used several different odd ball calibers, but who knows? Monty

 

[TomB]

The bullet you posted is very similar to one that I recovered in the Richmond area. I have recovered several hundred bullets over the years, but only one like this. I have sent pic to a number of CW buffs and no one has identified it.

 

[engine 823]

If you will look at ( Civil War Projectiles II Small Arms And Field Artillery ) you will see on page 21 that there can be several point types for period rounds. I have never found one but they were made with tips on the nose. Not saying that is what it is but it could be. Also is it possible that the tip could have been caused by ramming then being fired with a very, very light powder load? I've found several examples that have been rammed but I can see no rifling were it was fired. Then of course there is always the possiblity that it is carved. There are some very extreme examples of civil war carved bullits in the above book. Always get the weight in grams, length, diameter, base type, etc... before trying to identify civil war projectiles. There are thousnad sof examples. Also with the second bullet type if you get the above info for me I may be able to further help. I agree with other posters though. Either carbine or repeater rifle.

 

[Angelo]

Similar. Called a "teated" bullet/

Tony

 

[BuckleBoy]

The bullet you posted is very similar to one that I recovered in the Richmond area. I have recovered several hundred bullets over the years, but only one like this. I have sent pic to a number of CW buffs and no one has identified it.

Tom, I almost got REALLY excited when you posted this--the bullet is the exact same shape as mystery bullet #2 above, but I think it's a little big. The reason I got excited was that for a second I thought you might've recovered this one from Southwestern Virginia (same campaign as the boys that were firing bullets into that slope at my honey hole). If that's a .58 cal on the left, then the one on the right is the exact same shape (blunt nose, flat base, etc.) but it is too big.

-Buckleboy

 

[BuckleBoy]

Also is it possible that the tip could have been caused by ramming then being fired with a very, very light powder load? I've found several examples that have been rammed but I can see no rifling were it was fired.

I don't think this one was fired. I had thought about the ram rod, but I've seen many examples from other sites of bullets marked by running them down a dirty gun barrel with a ram rod. No fired bullets have come from this campsite--of course, having a loaded gun or firing a shot IN a camp was a big no-no. And yes, there are no rifling marks. So I'm 99.9% certain it's a drop. Yes, it could be carved, but the carving would be very slight--which is fairly unusual.


-Buckleboy

 

[civilman1]

Hey BuckleBoy.....I think I have the same round that's had me stumped for over a year now.Like your's I'm 99.9% sure it's never seen the inside of a barrell.The base is also thicker than your average .58 minie.The closest thing I came across was a grooved Selma lubed Enfield but the cavity is no where near an enfield,just your typical cone shaped.Like I said it's had me stumped for over a year now....Good Luck and let me know if you find out.HH!!

 

[BuckleBoy]

Civilman,

I think yours is the same bullet as TomB's example above--unless Tom's has a flat base. Mine is closer to .44 cal size though, and the base is flat.

-Buckleboy

 

[civilman1]

I think you got me wrong BuckleBoy....I was reffering to the first bullet pictured,not the flat base.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I think you got me wrong BuckleBoy....I was reffering to the first bullet pictured,not the flat base.

I see! Duh! Sorry about that. Yes, except for the "teat" (if that's what it even is), they seem to be almost identical. I *hate* any sort of plow damage to bullets. Drives me NUTS. Plow got it once--just a little scrape on the back. I took the photo of the other side so that it would be easier to tell what the danged thing was, perhaps. I'd like to hear from Sentinel or Wildrider before this thread sinks to the bottom of the Tnet quagmire without much in the way of a positive ID. Thank you again for posting, Civilman. If you ever get an ID on yours, please send me a PM.

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[civilman1]

Not a problem BuckleBoy....I'd love to hear from Sentinel or Wildrider myself on this one.....I'm probably gonna lose another 1/2 hr.'s sleep on this one Thank's and HH!!

 

[Monty]

The more I look at the big hollow based bullet the more I think it just might be miscast and cast aside. Perhaps not enough lead in the mold which would cause the top to settle and flatten out instead of forming a sharper point. The sprue would ordinarily stick through the top of the mold and be shaved off when the bullet is knocked out of the mold. If the sprue didn't stick out of the mold, it wouldn't be shaved off. Is the mystery bullet lighter in weight than the one along side it? That could be a tip off. Just a possibility. Nothing else seems to fit. Monty