Buckle and some type of lever/latch??

[azdave]

Hello all......first pic's are of a buckle that I found here in a canyon that I have been working. The buckle was a good 10" in some of the hardest caliche I've dug in a while. The 3 ringer and GSB pictured with it was found in the same immediate area, about 2-3" deep.....weird. This area was active in 1860's on with military and civilian traffic....and probably prior with Mexican and possibly Spanish visitors. But the Apache kept outsiders to a minimum until the 1880's.
The question is if anyone has found a similar type buckle, and if they could date theirs/identify its origin. It sure appears handmade, with some type of design faintly seen. I tend to think Mexican type of design, and the depth makes me think it predates other things found in the area..

The next pic's come from another canyon a few miles away, but on the same route as above. I believe it to be a lever or latch of some type, and is broken/snapped off and badly bent. I think maybe wagon or harness related, and it was at a clearing/encampment area at the base of the trail that then went up a rough section to crest on a ridge. The 3 ringer and 2 GSB's were in the immediate area.
I just can't visualize what this lever would have been used for.
Thanks for any help!

 

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[trikikiwi]

I'm surprised no one has yet commented on your finds as they appear very interesting.

No expert, but could your buckle be a heel plate? It appears to be Iron and a flat profile, which doesn't strike me as a buckle

The latch is unusual too. It appears to be broken (?) as I can't see any attachment point for the base part.

Any chance of some more pics of both items - from all angles? Also, with respect, a hint for getting better detail in the subject is to use a darkish (blue or green is good) background and where possible, natural light. A white background confuses the camera and the eye.

Cheers, Mike

 

[azdave]

Thanks Mike...it surprises me too that no one is even taking a guess at these.
It is definitely a buckle. I took a picture of its thickness next to a heel plate...the buckle is about 3/16" thick, and the center section/crossbar is not flat relative to the outside portion (recessed). Both pictures are of the backside. As stated, the front side has some type design engraved around the holes and such.

I tried to capture the broken section of the lever, as stated, it was broken/snapped off....the damage is at an attachment hole.
My camera and photography skills really show, but I hope these pic's help.

 

[azdave]

A few more pics of the lever.......

 

[jwarner51]

I too feel it could be a heel plate. What are your thoughts on why it is a buckle. Maybe I'm missing something

 

[azdave]

I too feel it could be a heel plate. What are your thoughts on why it is a buckle. Maybe I'm missing something

First...it is pictured next to a confirmed heel plate---note the difference in thickness....this thing is THICK and HEAVY. I SURE wouldn't want that on the bottom of my boot. Also, the holes are decorative, not for attaching based on shape, in my opinion.
Second, as stated....the mid section/cross bar is NOT flush, it has a "recess" as a buckle would for the leather or strap...in other words, the middle section is not as thick as the rest.
Third, it has a "pattern" (scrollwork)of some kind...it has been "tooled" in other words; why would you tool a pattern onto something going onto the bottom of your boot, just to be quickly worn off and go unseen??

My guess is that its a Mexican buckle, and the style sure says that to me, from other older items I've seen from south of the border (check out an old Mexican saddle for example--they were as "ornate" as a Mexican low-rider is now, lol). It's depth also makes me think it pre-dates the other items found near it,of course that is just an assumption, we all know how some things seem to sink while other items might stay near the surface. as well, the condition--most iron items that I find in our extremely dry desert from the 1860-70's, come out looking in much better shape....so this seems older based on that as well.

I was just hoping someone has one or had come across one similar, and knew its history. Thanks for the thoughts, they're all appreciated

 

[jwarner51]

First...it is pictured next to a confirmed heel plate---not the difference in thickness....this thing is THICK and HEAVY. I SURE wouldn't want that on the bottom of my boot. Also, the holes are decorative, not for attaching based on shape, in my opinion.
Second, as stated....the mid section/cross bar is NOT flush, it has a "recess" as a buckle would for the leather or strap...in other words, the middle section is not as thick as the rest.
Third, it has a "pattern" of some kind...it has been "tooled" in other words; why would you tool a pattern onto something going onto the bottom of your boot, just to be quickly worn off and go unseen??

My guess is that its a Mexican buckle, and the style sure says that to me, from other older items I've seen from south of the border (check out an old Mexican saddle for example--they were as "ornate" as a Mexican low-rider is now, lol). It's depth also makes me think it pre-dates the other items found near it,of course that is just an assumption, we all know how some things seem to sink while other items might stay near the surface. as well, the condition--most iron items that I find in our extremely dry desert from the 1860-70's, come out looking in much better shape....so this seems older based on that as well.

I was just hoping someone has one or had come across one similar, and knew its history. Thanks for the thoughts, they're all appreciated

Okay I see your reasoning. Wish I could help with anything else but I can't. Love the button by the way. FYI boot plates can be that thick I have one from the 1840-1850s era that is 1/4" thick

 

[tamrock]

I agree the buckle/heel plate ?? is old Mexico. That tool is some kind of crimper/punch for something??. It reminds me of a type tool we used in the mine to repair busted hoses with these band straps. We had a tool to crimp a hose band after it was tightened up. It could also be something to crimp fasteners in a busted leather drive belt as that's what was used for transmission on old pully wheels before rubber belts? It does looks to have been designed for a single purpose only. Still I'm baffled as to what it really is and designed to do. ?? I will say its a great "what is it"