Brigantine of Olano in 1510

[Panfilo]

Knowing there are so many researches and historians on TreasureNet I have an inconclusive research project that has hit a brick wall and I figured that maybe somebody out there can find a clue or some lead:
It so happens that next year we will be celebrating the 500 year anniversary of the discovery of the islands of Providencia, San Andres and the least known of the three, Santa Catalina (actually she’s a stones throw away from Providencia). Captain Lope de Olano, on the 26 of November 1510, (the day of Sta. Catalina) landed there and on the 30th discovered San Andres Island on the Saints anniversary. Olano apparently had been on Columbus’ second and third voyages and later reappears in 1509 as second in command after Diego de Nicuesa. They get lost in a hurricane, separated and Olano discovers these islands, being court-martialed later on for not rescuing his superior Nicuesa earlier, no justice in those times. Remember that the Archivo General de Indias burnt down in 1551 as Marx so appropriately points out in one of his fascinating books so this venue is of little or no use. What we would like to find out for the anniversary celebrations is the name of the brigantine of Olano in 1510 as there is no known record of this ships name. Any ideas?

 

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[Chagy]

In 1509 I have Diego de Nicuesa as being the owner of "La Trinidad" a 100 ton nao with Juan de Farfan as Maestre...

Do you know who was the Maestre of your vessel? if you do I have the name you are looking for

 

[Panfilo]

“According to Lopez de Gomara in his chronicles, Diego de Nicuesa left the port of Beata in Santo Domingo with seven naos and caravels and two brigantines in 1508., Lope de Olano was second in command in charge of two brigantines. They had over 780 men onboard to go to Cartagena where he met Alonso de Ojeda and they united forces to avenge the death of Juan de la Cosa”
Diego Ribero does show up but a name for the maestre I have not come across.

 

[Chagy]

As per Duro in 1511 Nicuesa also disapiers in a birgantine....let me see what else I can find..in worst scenario I can narrow it down to 7 vessels...17 left and only 10 made it back...all of them were 100 to nao's...

more in a few minutes...

 

[Chagy]

You may want to check out; 'Historia general de los hechos delos castellanos en las islas y tierra firme del mar oceano" Madrid 1601-1615 Antonio de Herrera

Also "Coleccion de los viajes y descubrimientos que hicieron por mar los espanoles" Madrid 1825-1837 Marti Fernandez de Navarrete

Also (CODOIN, Ind., I., 31, p. 525-528, Valladolid, 22 janvier 1510)

I also have Nicuesa in 1511 traveling in the same vessel "La Trinidad"
so it seem he disappears in "La Trinidad"

I will give you the list of vessels with the maestres some of them have the owners name.....

I hope this helps

 

[Chagy]

1510

#1 “Santiago” Maestre Juan de Camargo
#2 “Santiago” Maestre Pedro Grande
#3 “Santa Maria de Loreto” Maestre Cristobal Suarez
#4 “San Salvador” Maestre Cristobal Rodriguez Biscayno, Piloto Juan Quintero, Proprietario Cristobal Rodriguez Biscayno (1/3) Francisco del Alcazar y Alonso de Barrera
#5 “San Salvador” maestre Juan de Salamanca Triana, proprietary Bartolome Oyas de Triana
#6 “La Trinidad “ maestre Juan Farfan, Proprietario Diego de Nicuesa
#7. “San Vicente” Maestre Sancho de San Juan
#8 “Santa Maria” Maestre Pedro de Balcola
#9 “San Salvador”Maestre Anton Martin
#10 “Santa Cruz” Maestre Antonio Catalan, Propietario Miguel Diaz
#11 “Santa Maria del Antigua” Maestre Lope Sanchesz de Palo, Propietario pedro Cavallero y Lope Sanchez
#12 “Santa Maria de la Vittoria” Maestre Antonio del Camino
#13 “Santiago” Maestre Diego Rodriguez Pepino
#14 “Santa Maria Madalena” Maestre Miguel Sanches Rodriguez
#15 “Santa Maria” Maestre Cristobal Becos
#16 “San Martin” Maestre Diego de Basurto
#17 “Santa Maria de la Concepcion” Maestre Diego Sanchez Ramos, Piloto Juan Fernandez, Propietario Diego Sanchez Ramos

 

[Panfilo]

Thank you Chagy for your fine work. Do you show which ones of these ships were part of the nine that made up the initial Nicuesa/Olano expedition? Also there are considerable references as to Nicuesa being aboard the Capitana, a nao or a caravel not a brigantine, do you have any reference that La Trinidad was it? If indeed as I suppose, your list includes all the options and Olanos brigantine is one of them, one would have to find the maestres name and or eliminate from your list all but the brigantines and by a process of elimination find his ship. Let me reread what I've got and see if I can narrow it down, muchas gracias!

 

[Vox veritas]

Knowing there are so many researches and historians on TreasureNet I have an inconclusive research project that has hit a brick wall and I figured that maybe somebody out there can find a clue or some lead:
It so happens that next year we will be celebrating the 500 year anniversary of the discovery of the islands of Providencia, San Andres and the least known of the three, Santa Catalina (actually she’s a stones throw away from Providencia). Captain Lope de Olano, on the 26 of November 1510, (the day of Sta. Catalina) landed there and on the 30th discovered San Andres Island on the Saints anniversary. Olano apparently had been on Columbus’ second and third voyages and later reappears in 1509 as second in command after Diego de Nicuesa. They get lost in a hurricane, separated and Olano discovers these islands, being court-martialed later on for not rescuing his superior Nicuesa earlier, no justice in those times. Remember that the Archivo General de Indias burnt down in 1551 as Marx so appropriately points out in one of his fascinating books so this venue is of little or no use. What we would like to find out for the anniversary celebrations is the name of the brigantine of Olano in 1510 as there is no known record of this ships name. Any ideas?

Hi Panfilo,
in spite of the fire of the archive of the Casa de la Contratacion (archive of Indies is later) there are available funds previous to 1551.There is also documentation in other archives of Spain, as Simancas, National Library, Protocolos Notariales and others. It is a mere problem to spend hours to research.
Cheers

 

[ScubaFinder]

Here is some good reading, it goes into detail on the persons on board with lots of names, but very few ships names. However, with Chagy's list you can probably narrow down a few of the ships.

http://books.google.com.do/books?id=rdvp3cGJUZoC&pg=PA9&dq=Nicuesa+Olano+1510&hl=en

Jason

 

[Panfilo]

Thank you Chagy, Claudio and Jason I’ll work on these leads. I know Claudio of all of these great archives that are your home and office but this “favor” I was asked comes with no financing so I have tried with what I can locate here locally at the Archivo General de la Nacion and the resources available on the web which each day increase tenfold. Many of my pesos have gone to Spains archives as these subjects are not cheap as anyone who likes this topic all too well knows. Thanks again,

 

[Chagy]

De nada, con mucho gusto!!!! I've been busy when I have the chance I will try to help some more....

All the best,

Chagy.....

 

[Vox veritas]

Thank you Chagy, Claudio and Jason I’ll work on these leads. I know Claudio of all of these great archives that are your home and office but this “favor” I was asked comes with no financing so I have tried with what I can locate here locally at the Archivo General de la Nacion and the resources available on the web which each day increase tenfold. Many of my pesos have gone to Spains archives as these subjects are not cheap as anyone who likes this topic all too well knows. Thanks again,

Panfilo, here a document about Olano in the AGI, Section Indiferente General 418, book # 3, page 221
Burgos, 01-28-1512
Real Cédula a Diego de Nicuesa, capitán en la parte de Veragua, o a otra persona en cuyo poder esté preso o detenido Lope de Olano, para que lo envíe junto con el proceso que contra él se haya hecho a fin de que se vea y determine su causa por los del Consejo

All the best for you.

 

[Panfilo]

Thank you Claudio. I’m glad I’m currently taking a Paleography seminar on “Procesal Encadenada” which makes reading these sixteenth century documents a real challenge!

 

[Bobadilla]

“According to Lopez de Gomara in his chronicles, Diego de Nicuesa left the port of Beata in Santo Domingo with seven naos and caravels and two brigantines in 1508., Lope de Olano was second in command in charge of two brigantines. They had over 780 men onboard to go to Cartagena where he met Alonso de Ojeda and they united forces to avenge the death of Juan de la Cosa”
Diego Ribero does show up but a name for the maestre I have not come across.

Hola Panfilo,
I am a little intrigued with the statement.....left the port of Beata in Santo Domingo with seven naos...... We know that the island of Hispaniola was also known as Island of Santo Domingo, but Beata is very small island close to Haitian border without any port or facilities, there is just anchorage. This island was occassionally visited by pirates in the past but I have no knowledge that any port would be there....Any information would be appreciated (I am always learning.....) Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Lobo (Bobadilla)

 

[Panfilo]

I am a mining engineer by profession Lobo so certain things tend to impress me more and I do remember reading in the book “ Sumario de la Historia natural de Indias” by Oviedo his account of “the largest gold nugget he had ever seen, which was lost at sea close to the island of Beata, weighing 3,200 castellanos or 32 pounds of 16 ounces each”
Now back to your question regarding the island of Beata’s port here is a direct quote saying that eight naos and caravels and two brigantines left this port in 1508:
“Estaba Veragua en fama de rica tierra desde que la descubrió Cristóbal Colonel año do 2; y asi, pidióla gobernación y conquista della al Rey Católico Diego de Nicuesa, el cual armó en el puerto de la Beata de Santo Domingo siete naos y carabelas y dos bergantines, año de 8. Embarcó mas de setecientos y ochenta españoles, y para ir allá echó á Cartagena, de quien mas noticiase tenia, por seguir la costa yno errarla navegación.
It so appears Lobo that there was a port in this island in 1508. Now to the more serious subject: 16 ounces x 32= 512 ounces @ 1,000= half a mil.gold nugget close to the island of Beata. Let me know if you find it, I'll take a 10% commission.

 

[Bobadilla]

Estimado Panfilo,

Regarding the famous giant gold nugget, many expeditions were after this piece but without any success so far. Why? This nugget was supposed to be on board of the flagship of Francisco Bobadilla called "El Dorado" that sank with everybody on board and with the whole cargo during horrible hurricane in the beginning of July 1502. The giant nugget was found by native Indian woman by coincidence on the shore of the river Haina, about 10 kilometers west from Santo Domingo city. The complete fleet of Francisco Bobadilla consisting of 32 ships (some historian say 28, some 30....) was wrecked, just one small ship called "La Aguja" survived. There is an extract from the narration of father Charlevoix about this hurricane and fleet of Francisco Bobadilla:

“At the beginning of the 16 st century there was a father Charlevoix living in Santo Domingo, who wrote very nice book about events which had occurred in this island in the past. Famous giant nugget of gold that was found by one Indian woman while working in gold mines close to place called San Cristobal was put on board of one of the ships that was waiting with all the others in the harbor of river Ozama to set sail for Spain. This ship disappeared without any track somewhere on the eastern tip of the island close to Mona Channel. It will remain in historical documents for ever that Christopher Columbus during his fourth and last voyage to the New World appeared in the front of Santo Domingo asking for permission to enter the harbor where he had planned to repair his ships damaged by tropical storm. Nicolas Ovando, who replaced Francisco Bobadilla in his position of governor refused to give him that permission, probably from envy and vengeance toward the Admiral’s successes. Columbus, though with great arrogance sent him a message with recommendation to postpone the departure of the whole fleet because of the eminent danger of hurricane. New governor did not take this advice into account and the fleet set sail. Within short time after leaving Santo Domingo harbor were surprised by very furious storm. From 31 ships which formed the fleet 23 were lost and on one of these was Francisco Bobadilla himself, Roldan who had led the first Spanish rebellion in America and Indian chiefs Caonabo, Guarionex and Mayobanex who were also on the board…… Never before any ocean had received so much treasure at one time. Apart from the famous giant gold nugget that weighted 225 ounces the storm sent to the sea bottom at least two and half millions from the gold mines in Hispaniola".

The fleet was lost just 48 hours after leaving the harbor of Santo Domingo when they were entering the Mona Channel. This channel is very deep, about 3,000 feet, and “El Dorado” is supposed to be lost in this depth, though there are also theories that the ship was driven by wind to the shore, the same fate what happened several other ships from this ill-fated fleet, where it was broken to pieces on sharp coral reefs in shallow water.

So, again, the nugget was lost somewhere in the entrance to Mona Channel, it means in completely opposite direction from Santo Domingo (according to historical documents I consulted) that is Isla Beata. Anyway, I did not know about this account of eight naos being dispatched from Isla Beata harbor and I would like to give you thanks for that information. I will add it to my private archive about Hipaniola shipwrecks and history of navigation.
Really pleasure to talk to you, Panfilo! Write me more what you dug up from old archives regarding “my” island!

Regards,
Lobo (Bobadilla)