Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

uniface

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Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Appreciate the article Uniface. It makes me think, what about the youngsters? Were they not engaged in their fathers' pursuits? They must have made boat loads of mistakes as they went from apprentice to pro. Were the points/tools they made merely mistaken for a cruder or older version of the master knappers work?
Do you know of proven examples of this? We may all have them. How would we know?

Again thanks for the text and pics.
BW
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Excellent article, Uniface. I clicked on the link to the rest of the articles and spent so much time enjoying them that I almost forgot to come back here to thank you. That Missouri Folsom is gorgeous! Thanks for the great info!
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Sounds like something you might write Uni?
I keep bringing this up every now and then and never seem to get an answer that I like but the article touched on it.
My question is in some places we hunt back in the mtns we only find one type of point say..Fox Valleys. Its the only point there.I wonder if that is all they knew how to make,,,or is it the tool that worked for that place in time and why make anything else?
Thanks for the read I had trouble with the hyperlinks

Regards
TnMtns
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

I agree with Bluesy, almost didn't get back to thank you...it was a great read, loved the article about skinning the goat...have tried it on deer and always had good results...
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

TnMountains said:
in some places we hunt back in the mtns we only find one type of point say..Fox Valleys. Its the only point there.I wonder if that is all they knew how to make,,,or is it the tool that worked for that place in time and why make anything else?
This is going to sound either really stupid or like I'm jerking you around. Neither's the case. If you're on a single component site, the points you find will be whatever points the people who lived there made. Maybe before that, the people in that area lived somewhere else, and after that the people in that area also lived somewhere else, so you won't find their stuff on that site. But however it shakes out, the guys who made whatevers are who were there, leaving the stuff you find there.
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Great article and website. " Plan b's " always make my day, unique one offs, special pieces imo.
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

uniface said:
TnMountains said:
in some places we hunt back in the mtns we only find one type of point say..Fox Valleys. Its the only point there.I wonder if that is all they knew how to make,,,or is it the tool that worked for that place in time and why make anything else?
This is going to sound either really stupid or like I'm jerking you around. Neither's the case. If you're on a single component site, the points you find will be whatever points the people who lived there made. Maybe before that, the people in that area lived somewhere else, and after that the people in that area also lived somewhere else, so you won't find their stuff on that site. But however it shakes out, the guys who made whatevers are who were there, leaving the stuff you find there.
No I understand what you are saying. I know how to make a fox valley thats what we make. I teach my son to make fox valleys thats what we make. Change is slow if you are isolated.
Thanks. So did you write the article?? :read2:
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Nope. Bill's site's all Bill's work. It's quite a compliment that you'd think so, though. For which I thank you heartily !

Book maybe 20 years from now. Way too much necessary information is locked away out of my financial reach, and I'm kind of adverse to coughing up the kind of money the piled-higher-and-deepers want for guest admittance to their scholarly clubhouses.
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Great article, Uni! Logging onto the website is worthwhile just seeing the incredible Clovis from Oklahoma. Wow! I'm even now going over some of the pieces collected earlier in my pursuit and seeing some plan B's.
Also, and since we've got, who I consider, some learned participants in this conversation, I'd like to throw out another question: Have any of you ever given thought to just how many members of a camp or band were involved in shaping points/ tools? Do you suppose that there were just one or two craftsmen within a band or family who produced tools, or perhaps, was this a craft taught to all when arriving at a certain age? Was, perhaps the task of projectile points given to a few, and other tools to others yet? Some of the pieces are truly pieces of art as well as implements. Surely, not all possessed such dexterity and inclination to produce such work. Moreover, with the probable scarcity of materials from time to time, it would seem that tool/ point production would be delegated to those who could reliably produce tools and not breakage.
I've had this question put to me several times, and while no one may be able to answer it definitively, I would like to hear the opinions of you who have been attached to this discipline much longer than I. Thanks as always,
Docmann
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

docmann said:
Great article, Uni! Logging onto the website is worthwhile just seeing the incredible Clovis from Oklahoma. Wow! I'm even now going over some of the pieces collected earlier in my pursuit and seeing some plan B's.
Also, and since we've got, who I consider, some learned participants in this conversation, I'd like to throw out another question: Have any of you ever given thought to just how many members of a camp or band were involved in shaping points/ tools? Do you suppose that there were just one or two craftsmen within a band or family who produced tools, or perhaps, was this a craft taught to all when arriving at a certain age? Was, perhaps the task of projectile points given to a few, and other tools to others yet? Some of the pieces are truly pieces of art as well as implements. Surely, not all possessed such dexterity and inclination to produce such work. Moreover, with the probable scarcity of materials from time to time, it would seem that tool/ point production would be delegated to those who could reliably produce tools and not breakage.
I've had this question put to me several times, and while no one may be able to answer it definitively, I would like to hear the opinions of you who have been attached to this discipline much longer than I. Thanks as always,
Docmann

I am sure to be corrected and guided but my thoughts are everyone was adapt at stone tools to some degree. It was what made the world go round. Women thought nothing of using the tools from their kitchen and would touch and shape and re-sharpen them as they worked.I am sure the hunters took more time in fashioning the all important tool for the ultimate gather. I am sure some were very talented and would barter their points even if they were not the best at hunting. There have been recorded burials with women having piles of points and large ceremonial swords nearing two feet intered with them uopn death, This tells me these points were important to them as well as in their life.
I am sure everyone recognised the raw material and gathered it when they saw it. If it was a prime material maybe it went to the best of the best in the group. They showed much pride in their workmanship. The women played a very important role in everyday life and its old school thought that they just chewed out their man a pair of moccasins and beat clothes on a rock. The gathered roots used snares and am sure fashioned tools and clothing as well. I bet many of the fine bone tools were created by women as well as in later times pottery.
My humble thinking on a society that worked as a whole.

TnMountains
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Kids probably watched older people do it from little on up, and absorbed it. Like they learned the other skills -- watching and practice.

My suspicion.
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

uniface said:
Kids probably watched older people do it from little on up, and absorbed it. Like they learned the other skills -- watching and practice.

My suspicion.

No kidding cause at 40 you were toast. Worn out toothless and arthritic. Haha sounds like me but with teeth : )
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Rant Alert !

Hi Docmann

Pardon me for not having addressed the question you asked
Docmann said:
Have any of you ever given thought to just how many members of a camp or band were involved in shaping points/ tools? Do you suppose that there were just one or two craftsmen within a band or family who produced tools, or perhaps, was this a craft taught to all when arriving at a certain age? Was, perhaps the task of projectile points given to a few, and other tools to others yet?

It's kind of a long story. What it boils down to is Franz Boas, who hijacked what could have been an intelligent study of prehistory. By declaring archaeology a branch of "anthropology," and dictating what "anthropology" was and was not, what its operating assumptions were (like that genetics plays no role in human/societal differences) and so on, he reduced archaeology to a red-headed stepchild, obliged to validate the conclusions about human nature he had determined in advance.

This is where you get the never-ending hobby horse nonsense about "egalitarian bands," "gender roles in paleolithic society" and similar rubbish. For none of which even a particle of evidence exists. Or ever will. "Anthropology" deals in these, so archaeology must as well, whether it has any foundation to do so that critical readers of ordinary intelligence wouldn't laugh at or not.

The basic stuff of archaeology is stones, bones, ivory and charcoal. From there, secondary or derivative patterns like tool forms and technologies, their probable uses, cultural ranges and time frames, etc. are pretty well grounded in empirical evidence. If archaeology would restrict itself to what it can do, and do well, in conjunction with geology, pollen analysis, genetics &c., it would be a great improvement. (Jack Webb voiceover : "Just the facts, ma'am.")

But in the mean time, with attention diverted into arguing lunatic scenerios like Paleolithic hunters supposedly exterminating the mammoths, there is simply too much energy going into conceptual rat holes.

Case in point : no low-technology society has ever passed up an available food resource. But for 50 years it was obligatory to go along with the official gag that Clovis, Folsom, Scottsbluff et al. people had followed the herds of megafauna around, ignoring everything else edible, with the Archaic era beginning the generalized foraging survival strategy. Assumptions like these, especially when they're, for all practical purposes, articles of faith in a belief system, quickly become irrational insistances. With the professional inquisition, heresy trials and persecution for heretics following as a matter of course.

Archaeology is partly absorbed in fruitless pursuits because it still regards itself as a branch office of Boasian Anthropology. If it would step off that bus -- stop chasing daydreams impossible to come to grips with from the evidence it has -- and get down to business . . .

I know.

Wish in one hand . . .

Thank You. I feel much better now.
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Daum Uni who whizzed in your corn flakes?? ;D ;D ;D :thumbsup: :hello: lol
Geez we leave for 5 minutes and you go Postal :help:
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

TnMountains said:
Daum Uni who whizzed in your corn flakes?? ;D ;D ;D :thumbsup: :hello: lol
Geez we leave for 5 minutes and you go Postal :help:
Ive always woderd about topics like this. Awsome post
 

Re: Breckinridge: Plan "B" Artifacts

Don't ever kid yourself that there aren't women with more cojones than many of the guys around them have.

One such, an Education major in college, realized that all the prof ever checked in the pile of term papers he got at the end of the semester were the first few pages, and the last few pages. After that, he riffled quickly through the pages, looking for erasures. (points off for erasures). So she typed the first ten pages of her assigned topic, and the last ten. The 80 pages in between were her biology class notes. Double spaced with no erasures.

She got an "A."

O read a lot of archaeological books and reports on the internet. When one of them contains so much as a paragraph that teaches me something (I copy these out verbatim), it's been a worthwhile effort. There are fewer of them than you'd think. I'm happy to settle for a sentence.

At least as often as not, you could easily replace a long, pointless train of multi-page, footnoted speculation with (for example), "There may have been people here before Clovis. But since we haven't found any evidence of them, there's no point speculating about it."

The single, all-time silliest waste of paper (so far) has been the first Meadowcroft Rockshelter site report. I forget now whether it was the first 35 pages or 50 pages that were devoted to a complete listing of every animal, bird, reptile, amphibian, tree, shrub and plant species that is found in the area today.

You probably get my drift :laughing7:
 

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