Brass Goat Badge/Emblem

[DCMatt]

Found by a friend of mine.

4” tall by 3.5” wide. Made of brass. Found in Suffolk, VA in the side yard of a house built in 1888. Found CW relics around it but no Rev war.

I hope to get a pic of the back soon.

What say you?

 

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[cw0909]

havent found a goat badge yet, but the goat has been a mascot with..

The Royal Welsh Fusiliers'relationship with goats dates back to an incident
at the Battle of Bunker Hill in 1775, during the American War of Independence.
A wild goat is reputed to have strayed on to the battlefield and led the Royal
Welsh Fusiliers' colour party from the field. A goat has served with the regiment
and its successor units ever since.

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=1960-05-295-1

 

[namxat]

I think it is a goat head on a torquillion.

Clan Fleming maybe?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Fleming


Greets Namxat

 

[Reanm8er]

Boy, I'd give my first born to solve this question! LOL! He's 32 really tough and wouldn't cooperate!

Congrats Matt! I really like that assoc to the royal fusiliers. I hope you find your solution! So, a fusilier is someone responsible for distributing rifle flints, cannon fusses and powder and ball?

In Suffolk you can buy peanuts that are treated just like they were in Colonial times. They're soaked in seawater for a prescribed period and they taste fabulous.

Best wishes!

 

[nhbenz]

Livery sort of thing it would seem? Similar looking critters here: https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/home/goat

 

[cw0909]

agree Clan Fleming

In the Virginia Colony, the Flemings were prominent as attorneys,
judges, planters, and supporters of the independence movement as
officers in the Continental Army. They were close friends of
Washington and Jefferson before they were presidents.


They lived in Williamsburg, in Henrico County, and subsequent
generations lived in Goochland, Chesterfield, and Cumberland counties.
https://www.gwest.org/fleming_book.htm

https://www.flyingtigerantiques.com...-clan-badge-in-silver-plated-cast-nickel.html

 

[flyadive]

Jersey Devil
Just trying to help Matt! Lol

 

[nhbenz]

Clan Fleming looks good but...

 

[DCMatt]

I think it is a goat head on a torquillion.

Clan Fleming maybe?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Fleming


Greets Namxat

Agree. It looks like Clan Fleming. There is plenty of Fleming family history in colonial Virginia with direct connection to Scotland.

If it's a clan badge, I assume it's from the old country. So, based on the size, how was it used or worn? What is it?

 

[namxat]

DCMatt,

sorry I cant say. I just noticed the torquillion and a somehow had in mind that belt/garter and/or torquilion are strongly indicative of scottisch clan badges. So I goggled "Clan badge Goat head" -> voila!
The Fleming / Virgina connection was unknown to me. But why shouldnt someone celebrate his heritage in the new world?

I can just guess:

From the size, hmm.... Hat badge? Luggage badge? something horse related?

Greets Namxat

 

[Reanm8er]

Great info guys!

Wow a clan or crest badge in the US. You might look up the original Royal land grants for that area and see who were awarded with or given proprietary property rights! I think the descendants of the grantors divorced themselves from European heraldic symbology before the revolutionary period. The local family I researched had a descendant who served in the revolution. That would take some real faith to do that knowing that if the colonies lost your whole family would likely loose their lands etc.

Best wishes, BANNER!

 

[xaos]

Very nice find...

is the back of the artefact like a pin or brooch?

Can only be banner if found by a member, not a friend.

 

[namxat]

People,


I have been notified, "torquilion" is not proper English word. It is called a torse. That is this twisted cloth the goats head stems from. Sometimes seen in other coat of arms but I think almost always in those scotish clan badges.

Greet Namxat


and sorry for the confusion.

 

[Plug N Play]

Was able to find examples of smaller accoutrements ... cuff links, necklace, kilt pins ... etc.
But, yours is more than twice as large as those.

They almost always are accompanied with the phrase, "Let the Deed Shaw". (Let the Deed Show)
There's a few possibilities associated with the traditional garb that need further searching.

Note the 1890's example ... how your piece may have easily popped free, if it was mounted in a similar fashion.

 

[CRUSADER]

Livery sort of thing it would seem? Similar looking critters here: https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/home/goat
View attachment 1710920

You're the closest, it is a family 'Livery emblem'.
These are mostly circa 1790-1840, & the ones I've seen are not brass but closer to pot metal or pewter. (sometimes plated) They normally have 2 iron fixings on the reverse, which fixed it to the horse harness leather.

 

[DCMatt]

As promised, here's a pic of the backside:

 

[DCMatt]

These are mostly circa 1790-1840, & the ones I've seen are not brass but closer to pot metal or pewter. (sometimes plated) They normally have 2 iron fixings on the reverse, which fixed it to the horse harness leather.

I looked at a bunch of livery emblems/badges. Most are quite a bit smaller than the goat badge.



And I don't understand the tabs on the back. There doesn't seem to be a way to attach it to anything...

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Cool relic, congrats!

 

[DCMatt]

And I don't understand the tabs on the back. There doesn't seem to be a way to attach it to anything...

My friend says the tabs may have been bent to affix the badge.

We can see that 3 1/2 of 7 tabs are broken or missing.

 

[CRUSADER]

I looked at a bunch of livery emblems/badges. Most are quite a bit smaller than the goat badge.

View attachment 1711209

And I don't understand the tabs on the back. There doesn't seem to be a way to attach it to anything...

View attachment 1711210

The ones that went on horses like this one are all sizes, seen very larges one's, those fixings, although more than usual went into holes on leather.