Bought my first firearm: Help Identifying This Musket

[coinman123]

Bought this beautiful gun for 160 dollars at an antique shop. I have no idea what it is, but I seeing that it was a musket I decided to buy it. I think it is awesome that now I have the actual gun that would have shot all of the musket balls I find. It is .69 calibers, and around 57 and a half inches long. It also looks to be converted from flintlock to percussion cap at one point too. What do you think it could be, and did I overpay?

There is a crack in the barrel stock unfortunately.

 

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[coinman123]

Also, Any idea how old it is and if it was actually converted from flintlock. All the tag said was, "Old Musket", so I don't have much to go on.

 

[coinman123]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/564845-69-caliber-musket-identification.html

 

[cw0909]

does the plate say J Bishop, or is it just part of the engraving work

BISHOP, D. D.
[FONT=&quot] Unidentified. Maker of over-under, combination per cussion rifle. [/FONT]
Bishop, Henry H.
[FONT=&quot]Riflemaker of Boston, Mass. At 8 Change Ave., 1847 to 1856 thence to 20 Fan. Hall Sq., 1857.[/FONT]
BISHOP, Henry H.
[FONT=&quot] Boston, Mass., about 1847. [/FONT]
BISHOP, J.
[FONT=&quot] Eastern Pennsylvania, gun-lock maker after 1775. [/FONT]
BISHOP, W.
[FONT=&quot] Springfield, Illinois. Percussion rifle. [/FONT]
Bishop, William
[FONT=&quot]Riflemaker of Boston, Mass., 1818 to about 1850.[/FONT]
BISHOP, William
[FONT=&quot] Boston, Mass., 1818-60.
https://www.earmi.it/USA Gunmakers/B.html
[/FONT]

 

[Red James Cash]

Its most likely .72 caliber and fires a .69 caliber ball.Musket balls were always smaller than the bore size so it could still be loaded with all the powder fouling blackpowder causes.Smoothbore muskets were well known for their inaccuracy,thats why armies stood in line fired volleys at eachother.The rifled musket changed all that,thats why there were so many casualties during the civil war.Smoothbore war tactics with modern firearms equals bad news.

 

[Limitool]

Don't know much about muzzle loaders at all. But I truly hope you got your money's worth. But here's one that I have that my late father made also.

 

[coinman123]

Don't know much about muzzle loaders at all. But I truly hope you got your money's worth. But here's one that I have that my late father made also.

Wow! That is a beauty, I love the wood on that one. Have you ever fired it? Shooting muzzleloaders sounds like fun, would be awesome to shoot the way that they did in the Revolutionary War or Civil War. I have a friend who deer hunts with a musket, sounds like that would be very tricky considering the poor range and aim they have, they must be very skilled!

I will ever risk firing mine though, too old to be sure it is safe for me, and the gun!

 

[Duckshot]

I see the brass furniture Coinman123, but is the butt plate steel?

If so, it was likely issued by somebody's military. Are you sure it ain't rifled?

I collect antique hand saws. When I buy one I can't identify I check the auction sites for a similar saw. Here is a gun trading site to try-
https://www.gunbroker.com/Muzzleloading-Collectibles
You will want to change the search parameters from the default setting.

Edit- if it was once a flint lock there might be powder burns on the stock from ejecta flying out of the flash pan

 

[coinman123]

I see the brass furniture Coinman123, but is the butt plate steel?

If so, it was likely issued by somebody's military. Are you sure it ain't rifled?

I collect antique hand saws. When I buy one I can't identify I check the auction sites for a similar saw. Here is a gun trading site to try-
https://www.gunbroker.com/Muzzleloading-Collectibles
You will want to change the search parameters from the default setting.

Edit- if it was once a flint lock there might be powder burns on the stock from ejecta flying out of the flash pan

The butt plate is brass, with a ornate design on the part that folds underneath the butt. I don't see any riffling in the barrel, but I will check again. It would be cool if it was military, what do you think?

I also really like antique handsaws! I have around 7 of them in my collection so far. My favorite one is from when I had a shed moved too the property a few months ago there was still a Diston Handsaw in it, I checked it and noticed brass rivets, it ended up being from the 1860's!! I the woman who was selling the shed if I could have it, and she said, "Sure! It was my ex-husband's, take those antique axes and hatchets too!"

 

[Red James Cash]

Nice smoke pole there buddy.Hawkens by chance?

 

[Red James Cash]

Wow! That is a beauty, I love the wood on that one. Have you ever fired it? Shooting muzzleloaders sounds like fun, would be awesome to shoot the way that they did in the Revolutionary War or Civil War. I have a friend who deer hunts with a musket, sounds like that would be very tricky considering the poor range and aim they have, they must be very skilled!

I will ever risk firing mine though, too old to be sure it is safe for me, and the gun!

During the revolution a british officer once said "To hit a man at 150 yards that man had to be very unfortunate.To hit a man at 200 yards you might as well be firing at the moon."

 

[l.cutler]

Definitely not military. It is a civilian fowler, what would be called a "hardware" grade. Something that would be sold somewhat cheaply in a hardware store. It was made percussion, not converted flintlock.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Been there. Done all this.

Link to thread below.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/564845-69-caliber-musket-identification.html

 

[coinman123]

Been there. Done all this.

Link to thread below.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/564845-69-caliber-musket-identification.html

Sorry! I was originally going to make a thread for ID in What Is It, then just post photos of it showing my new purchase here (without asking ID). Probably would have been best to just do that.

 

[Duckshot]

Coinman123, forget about your musket for a minute.

Did did you say say say di-di-di-Disston from 1860? (I must have picked up a stutter) Split nuts, Lamb' tounge handle with a Eagle medallion? Is the stamp still readable on the blade? What size?A saw from the 1860's might have once been handled by Ol' Henry-D himself. Can you post a picture for me? Please? Start a new thread if you must. I would very much like to see it. Thanks!

 

[Duckshot]

Definitely not military. It is a civilian fowler, what would be called a "hardware" grade. Something that would be sold somewhat cheaply in a hardware store. It was made percussion, not converted flintlock.

I don't know much of anything about muzzle loading bird pieces. But why would put a full length forearm on a bird gun? I not saying that you are wrong, I really don't know, but it just don't seem logical to me.

 

[coinman123]

Coinman123, forget about your musket for a minute.

Did did you say say say di-di-di-Disston from 1860? (I must have picked up a stutter) Split nuts, Lamb' tounge handle with a Eagle medallion? Is the stamp still readable on the blade? What size?A saw from the 1860's might have once been handled by Ol' Henry-D himself. Can you post a picture for me? Please? Start a new thread if you must. I would very much like to see it. Thanks!

I will get it out of the barn when I get the chance later today, it is hanging on an old square nail right now. It isn't the eagle type, but the 1865-1871 "H. Disston and Son" type. The medallion is very crude, sunken brass, and each small rivet has a "C" punched into it. I will take some photos when I get out there later. There is also something stamped into the wood, three very worn letters which I forget, I will need to check. I don't want to ever use it in fear of damaging it, but do use a nice 1940's Disston for all my wood cutting needs. I got the 1940's Disston and an old "Warrented" handsaw while cleaning out a friend's dad's basement, after he passed away. A couple weeks ago I found another nice "Warrented" handsaw with a carved ornate wooden handle in the middle on a road, the handle got ran over and was split in half. I grabbed it anyway and glued it back together with wood glue, still a nice wallhanger. Happy to see someone else who likes old handsaws, whenever I see any, I get them!

And yup, It has the very cool split nuts!

 

[coinman123]

I marked it solved in the "What is It?" forum. Mid 1800's fowler gun, with a J. Bishop lock and older flint lock barrel converted to percussion cap.

I also asked on a gun forum after someone suggested it in "What is It?", here's why they said there.

"Welcome Coinman. I'll give you a couple of thoughts about your Gun. First, Im not sure its British. The lock may be, but these were often re-used or purchased as separate pieces. It has a back action lock and a barrel that looks significantly older than the guns current configuration. It was converted from flint to percussion, likely in the 1840's, and has a barrel type percussion assembly which was screwed or braised into the drilled out original touch-hole. The gun is 'Hook Breach' which means that the barrel should lift out if you were to remove the pins that hold it to the stock. It is probably best described as a 'fowler' or all purpose hunting gun.
Best, johnny"


"Johnny has summarised this gun very well. It has most likely been put together probably in the late 1840s to late 50s using inexpensive components coupled with an earlier barrel. The "nipple & drum" percussion adaption was a cost effective method of converting a flintlock barrel to percussion, usually seen in America, & I suspect that this gun has been "made" in that country."