Bird or fish points?

[Dug]

Hi;

Quite some time ago I was in a farm field in Lobeco SC and eyeballed these small points in amongst Oyster shell, pottery shards, and agate/chert chips. I had the feeling that I was in a small village area since the chips were from point making. The area is less than a mile from a large saltwater creek. For points this small, what sort of use would they be? Fish or birds?

The smooth lower left item may not be a point, but the triangular shape caught my attention and stones are not naturally occurring in this sandy coastal area.

Opinions?

 

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[yakker]

Dug- good eye and assumptions about the site Often triangles were knives (btw, the triangle furthest to the left is not worked, and not an point. All edges appear to be smoooooth). You wouln't believe how small true arrow points can be- fitting on the surface of a dime in many cases. When you think of bird points, think of what a modern arrow point looks like- and how small it would have to be to fly right. Now, I'm not expert on fish points, but it (they) could be. I know someone will jump in and explain. I found a ton of triangles on the Eastern Shore, MD, and almost every time, found that they were a little lop-sided...used on one side, re-sharpened- a patterns I would associate w/ a knife.

 

[quito]

Arrowheads were used on everything from birds to enemies to buffalo, and yours are not small at all for an arrowhead.

 

[unclemac]

one of our members...(can't remember which'n)...is a bow hunter who makes his own points and experimented with smaller ones. His opinion was that smaller points work just fine on deer too.

 

[Dug]

one of our members...(can't remember which'n)...is a bow hunter who makes his own points and experimented with smaller ones. His opinion was that smaller points work just fine on deer too.

That has to be pretty meticulous work demanding serious patience to do points that small. I wonder what length of time it takes to turn out a small point and how it is pulled from rough. Very fascinating!

 

[quito]

That has to be pretty meticulous work demanding serious patience to do points that small. I wonder what length of time it takes to turn out a small point and how it is pulled from rough. Very fascinating!

They simply start with a smaller flake. They were probably pretty quick at making them too.

 

[monsterrack]

Points to have worked on an arrow would have to be small and thin. The one's I have made and hunted with are 3 times the size and a lot thinner than what you would find being used by NA in a bow. The point has to be large enough to open a hole in the prey that will let the shaft enter also, if not it would stop without much penetration. NA used small cane and reeds to make arrows so some of their bird points as we call them could be very small, and that would make the flight of the arrow farther. I think like it has been said they used small points on all game, because the end game is to wound your prey bad enough to cause it to stop are slow down. Great finds on the triangles and I would look at that spot again.

 

[quito]

Here are six arrowheads that I have sitting on a silver dollar.

View attachment 1126132View attachment 1126133

 

[old digger]

Nice small collection of triangle points! You would be supprised how effective and deadly those smaller point are. And to an efficient knapper it would not be long to make one.

 

[Dug]

Points to have worked on an arrow would have to be small and thin. The one's I have made and hunted with are 3 times the size and a lot thinner than what you would find being used by NA in a bow. The point has to be large enough to open a hole in the prey that will let the shaft enter also, if not it would stop without much penetration. NA used small cane and reeds to make arrows so some of their bird points as we call them could be very small, and that would make the flight of the arrow farther. I think like it has been said they used small points on all game, because the end game is to wound your prey bad enough to cause it to stop are slow down. Great finds on the triangles and I would look at that spot again.

The observation of the point being large enough to open a hole is similar to how privy probes are made. The point has to be larger to prevent the ground friction against the shaft otherwise pushing a headless probe 4-5 feet down in the ground would be a bi-atch. Clever those native Americans.

 

[Dug]

Here are six arrowheads that I have sitting on a silver dollar.

View attachment 1126132View attachment 1126133

Sorry quito, for some reason your links won't open for me.

 

[quito]

try again!!

 

[unclemac]

this is called a "Klickitat dagger" wicked little point used out here in Columbia River country... they fished the river with big "forks" during salmon spawns and I always thought water fowl were hunted more with nets and such. So I assume this point was just a game point.

 

[unclemac]

oops....THIS is a klickitat dagger.....

 

[knighthunter]

Back when I used to look and find points, I have a few tiny points, I was reading everything I could on arrowheads. I read somewhere that the bird points were used for killing buffalo as they would penetrate between the ribs into heart and lungs. If that were true why not call them buffalo points?

 

[Tony in SC]

Probably because the Indians didn't name them, we did. It does make sense that a small sharp point would penetrate better than a large wide point. Tony

Back when I used to look and find points, I have a few tiny points, I was reading everything I could on arrowheads. I read somewhere that the bird points were used for killing buffalo as they would penetrate between the ribs into heart and lungs. If that were true why not call them buffalo points?

 

[Dug]

You all have opened up a whole new world of points that I did not even know about. Those tiny points are insane! Beautiful too!

As small as they are, finding them must be nothing less than a miracle.

 

[Dug]

Probably because the Indians didn't name them, we did. It does make sense that a small sharp point would penetrate better than a large wide point. Tony

I see some of these larger wide points and wonder what kind of force was needed for them to penetrate the hide of their prey?

 

[unclemac]

I think most of those big ones were atlatl points, spear thrower points. The bow was a fairly "recent" (in terms of American archeology), weapon addition.

 

[quito]

a lot of them are just simply knives, commonly mistaken for an arrowhead or dart point.