✅ SOLVED Bayonet found. WW2, WW1 or older?

[yaxthri]

So I found this brass handled bayonet at my favorite WW2 German/Italian bunker site (check it out if you haven't at "Today's finds",

here ​

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/623705-ww2-bayonet-find.html#post6383099).
I found some time to clean it a little, just water and some brushes and now it is clear it's a bayonet. But the thing is it doesn't match the type of bayonets used by any of the armies that served or fought at that site.

A fellow TNeter suggested it could be a WW1 bayonet. ​

Googling similar looking handles made me think this could even be older then WW1...



So here are some pics of the handle. The broken blade, as I found out cleaning it, is far too corroded to even try electrolysis on the 4 pieces I have, but I think I should go back and dig a little more to check if there are more pieces of it still in the ground. There could be still 1 or 2 more pieces of that blade if this was for example a pre-WW1 saber bayonet maybe?



I have no idea (yet) how long the blade originally was but I think the form of the handle with it's iron nails and the sliding thingy(?) on it's right side could probably help an expert out there get an ID.

So please everyone, take a shot at this one, help me get an idea how this relic landed in the rubble pile of the destroyed WW2 bunker.

 

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[Gene Mean]

Great find! Maybe this was a battlefield during WW1 and WW2 or soldier carried ancestors weapon. Or?

 

[Plug N Play]

I don't know bayonets, yaxthri, ... a copy/paste from one that kinda looks like yours:


Civil War United State Model 1862 Zouave Collins & Co. Sword Bayonet. The bayonet features a brass handle, 22 1/2" blade, and rear slot. This Civil War sword bayonet, was for the 1863 Remington Contract Rifle, more popularly known as the Zouave Musket. The bayonet is marked "Collins & Co. Hartford, Conn. F.C.W." The serial number is 4583. The bayonet is in good condition for its age. It shows some signs of wear and use. Overall length is 27 1/4" L

 

[Retired Sarge]

There were a lot of European bayonets with brass handles, what makes it harder to ID this one is the missing/damaged Quillion or aka cross guard.

See link for a view of the various European brass handled bayonets.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bra...q6ALsQ_AUoAnoECA8QAg&biw=798&bih=340&dpr=2.63

 

[yaxthri]

Thank you for the replies fellow TNeters.​

Plug N Play I think I have a civil war era bayonet in my hands in deed!

I had to call up reinforcements so I posted my find on another site that specializes in war relics and somebody suggested this might be a Chassepot bayonet.
So I googled that and found out the greek army used in late 19th century a Greek made riffle called Mylonas 1872 that was outfitted with a German made Chassepot bayonet!!
Here are some pics of one that was up for sale

https://www.militariahub.com/german-ww1-captured-model-1866-chassepot-bayonet/

So I will mark this thread "solved", although as ffuries wrote the missing cross guard does not allow for a 100% accurate ID, neither does the broken blade (oh I went back and dug a little more into the ground but no more pieces were there to be found...). What is not solved is how a bayonet that was already an antique in the 1940s came to be found at this site...Was this lost by Greek military using a 1872 riffle in WW2 or had a German soldier taken this as a souvenir from some looted Greek army depot?...​

 

[Retired Sarge]

There were a lot of European bayonets with brass handles, what makes it harder to ID this one is the missing/damaged Quillion or aka cross guard.

See link for a view of the various European brass handled bayonets.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bra...q6ALsQ_AUoAnoECA8QAg&biw=798&bih=340&dpr=2.63

Rebels, Partisans etc used whatever weapon was readily available. Sometimes these weapons were outdated for the time period per se. That said a bullet from an outdated firearm kills just as good as one from a modern one, same for the bayonet. In some countries firearms made in the mid to late 1800s are being found on today's battlefields.

A quick history lesson on the area where the bayonet was found could help you. Example what enemy forces, partisan groups, local militias, and the countries own military operated in the area or occupied the area.

Good luck and regardless of condition still an awesome find, from an interesting and scary time period.

 

[yaxthri]

Yes ffuries you are correct in all your remarks.
I think I have just the right reason to look deeper into the history of this place. Information about it is a little thin... Locals that actually lived that time period tend to want to forget the exact facts, that is the ones not really affected by Alzheimer's hahaha. I will do my research and I will also post new pics if I manage to restore my find a little bit more.

Happy hunting