Attacked from every side

[MadMarshall]

So all to often I hear about the environmentalist and these other originazations beining the cause of the extinction of the Small Scale miner and though I do agree they play a huge role in making my life difficult but not as difficult as all these people who have no intention on mining and are staking claims and been holding on to claims for the sake of Having a Good Camping Spot or they just want to prospect recreationally..So much good land and in worthless hands..It was my understanding that the purpose of staking a mining claim was for the intent to work economically!!But honestly I have only seen a handful most people it seems use their claims as a Rec area or more often then not they have claims just to say they have a Gold claim...It is of my opinion that this is a big factor to the decline of the Small Scale prospector.. I been recently speaking with this stubborn old lady who had a claim since 1943 that hasn't been worked since the 1970 after her husband death and she just kept it ..Great property goining to waste!!!!And this same story is probably repeated hundred of times...If that is not the Case then it's people who stakes claim with only the intent to resale and never work which should be criminal in my opinion!!!And though these issues are not old I think they are often overlooked...



Anyway Hope all is having a good day today and some decent gold!!

 

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[Fullpan]

Right on Marshall! Its the 600 lb gorilla in the room that no one ever talks about. How can the next generation have success at small scale mining when the
claimowners are practically hoarding the claims to nobody's benefit? Have done considerable research on placer claims in general, and am amazed at the numbers of claims owned by one individual. There's one who's initials are E.B. who has 40 plus good claims scattered all over the motherlode - no way is she
ever going to mine them. Then the out-of-staters (NJ, AL, FL, MI, etc.) that, like you said, are parking their RV's for two weeks of vacation which is their right of course, but why not rent/lease the claim when they aren't around? The potential problems are no different than absentee landlords in the housing sector. And with the current value of claims, speculation is not a good move for the near future. Maybe the big problem is just inertia - if the BLM and county recorders
required email addresses on claim papers, the new generation could at least contact the owners for possible leasing arrangements(nobody under 40 is going to
sit down and write ten letters these days). I just don't know what the best solution is, but its putting a major damper on small scale mining's future, along
with the obvious problems.

 

[Armchair prospector]

Yes, it is unfortunate that people don't mine their claims, but how do you know this is going on with so many? Here in Ca. dredging was a way of seeing them in the water. It is how ever their right to do as they want as long as they do their do diligence in assessment or paying their fees as required. Maybe contacting the person E.B. and see if he would be willing to lease or sell one to you. As many young men or boys would rather play on there phones than put a shovel in their hands, this next generation is in for a rude awakening. It looks like the environmental movement has found a way to stop mining by purchasing claims and not using them, unless in secret for themselves.

 

[Fullpan]

Another thing to worry about. The greenies succeeded (last year?) in getting a law passed in ca. that says inactive hard rock claims will now only be allowed two extentions, before being declared null and void. They slipped it under the radar and nary a peep from hard rock miners. Their motivation comes from the
the available funds for remediating abandoned mine lands. There's no reason they can't do this also on placer claims, given their political power.

 

[Fullpan]

Yes, it is unfortunate that people don't mine their claims, but how do you know this is going on with so many? Here in Ca. dredging was a way of seeing them in the water. It is how ever their right to do as they want as long as they do their do diligence in assessment or paying their fees as required. Maybe contacting the person E.B. and see if he would be willing to lease or sell one to you. As many young men or boys would rather play on there phones than put a shovel in their hands, this next generation is in for a rude awakening. It looks like the environmental movement has found a way to stop mining by purchasing claims and not using them, unless in secret for themselves.

Armchair - The Western Mining Alliance did a phone survey of around 15,000 claimowners in ca. They found the average age to be over 70 years old - nuff said.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

many claims in Prescott were claimed out in the 1980's by Californian's..who never do assessment work, or prospect...but are big on no trespassing signs...

got so bad I just quit going over there...

 

[Fullpan]

And, of course, the BLM is happy to get all the yearly fees, but somehow can't afford the cost of claim evaluation - sweet deal for them.

 

[johnnysau]

Funny, NO trespass signs mean nothing on a mining claim, they own the minerals not the land. Private property different story. If they got a creek go fishing watch them mine.

johnnysau

 

[MadMarshall]

Yes, it is unfortunate that people don't mine their claims, but how do you know this is going on with so many? Here in Ca. dredging was a way of seeing them in the water. It is how ever their right to do as they want as long as they do their do diligence in assessment or paying their fees as required. Maybe contacting the person E.B. and see if he would be willing to lease or sell one to you. As many young men or boys would rather play on there phones than put a shovel in their hands, this next generation is in for a rude awakening. It looks like the environmental movement has found a way to stop mining by purchasing claims and not using them, unless in secret for themselves.

Unfortunatly are young people learn from example!!! When you have a generation of people with A Sense of ENTITLEMENT and that has been undermining laws for whatever reason I suppose it not that big of a surprise that the youngens are LAZY and of such a FRAGILE NATURE and so readily to take the easiest road to slavery... This should be Americas MOTTO "We do only the bare minimum required unless you can pay extra!!"

 

[Oakview2]

been recently speaking with this stubborn old lady who had a claim since 1943 that hasn't been worked since the 1970 after her husband death and she just kept it ..Great property goining to waste!!!!
.
Why not offer her a percentage to work the claim, perhaps she can use the money it would generate, or better yet, offer to pay her maintience fees to work it.

 

[russau]

also another point to consider is that in 1943 her husband probly had that land patented. and its hers if so todo with it as she wants.i cant see her doing all the claim work every year if its only a claim..i agree with oakview2 on his approach to her on leasing her "claim" to help generate some $$ for her.who knows, you may find a dear freind,!!!

 

[MadMarshall]

I hold strong to my convictions.. I will never lease property!! I will pay no man dues for nothing!!! Mining claims have one purpose and that is to be worked diligently and god willing profitable..By the individual or individuals staking the claim. Not when they feel like it or to charge an actual working man for rights he should already have! The truth is Small scale mining is a on the verge of extinction..And it is Dam depressing that one of the truly FREE forms of employment is being destroyed!!

""Using the commons as a cesspool does not harm the general public under frontier conditions, because there is no public, the same behavior in a metropolis is unbearable.""
Garrett Hardin

 

[Edward1976]

What you're proposing is to claim jump on claims because they're not being mined at the present? I dunno dude, I think if you're going to do that the evil environmentalist NPR loving commie pinkos are going to be the least of your worries, police and snipers will. If in doubt, stay out.

 

[fowledup]

I think you will get a real good idea of how many claim holders are really mining based on what happens with dredging. I know a few waiting and holding onto their claims, who will dump them should the decision go south on us. Just like everything else in Cal. It's a catch 22. We have to show interest so we don't lose access and rights by way of keeping claims active, flip side we still lose rights and access because of folks who have found a loophole to get them more/cheaper access on the same land they have rights to...... Huh?

 

[Goldwasher]

If the system gets changed at all it will be in the direction of no more filing claims at all.......that is the sure fire way to end small scale mining period....as it is you have a right as a citizen to challenge the validity of a claim...based on how it was filed and/or being used by the mineral leasee. If you feel it isn't right for them to do the foot work file hold title and pay their yearly fees for decades then challenge it.You look at it as a way to make free money....a lot of claimowners look at it as a way to keep a spot and not deal with all the hassles of finding one over and over again...and not have to deal with flat landers at the campgrounds and commonly known areas. Also all those seasonal claim users have to constantly deal with coming back and seeing what the claimjumpers have been doing since the last season, because it is a huge problem that people just don't care about claims...there are numerous "prospectors" who diligently research for claims held by out of town or state leasee's so they can go out and poach choice spots without paying their dues.....and somehow that makes the claimholder the selfish party.....sense of entitlement Claimholders don't market their claims as a way to make money usually so if you do the minimal legwork needed to get the contact info from someguy/gal....ask permission and get it for a nominal fee, I call that kindness and sharing with your fellow man.....and maybe just maybe it is a good spot and they let you keep coming back....maybe one day the claim upsteam opens up and you already have great insight on the area or maybe the claimowner decides to sell and you get first chance at puchase....if it has so much value then it should be an easy choice to make at that point.In reality it is one of the last easy and cheap ways to get your own little piece of this country and there are enough withdrawn areas and I would hate for a system that has worked great for 160 plus years to get messed with anymore. It couldn't get much easier really and if there was no way to call " Dibs " on a spot then the problems we would face would be so much worse....hence the reason mineral claims were created in the first place......guys get all ruffled when they find out some guy has dug or scraped at their "spot" on open land as it is. There has to be a way to designate and orginize the areas where you can legally extract mineral value or it would be a free for all and as history has shown time and again that never works out.

 

[MadMarshall]

Pvillehunter You hit the nail on the head"" ITS A cheap way to get your own little piece of country""" That is not the purpose of mining claims!!!! As for a system that has worked for over 160 years ..Times are different!!It is quite obvious now that the mining laws do not work!!! So many things have changed!!And our laws need to adapt to the timesAnd for the record I do not and will never HighGrade someone(claimjump)..Oh well doesn't really matter anyway!!

 

[jog]

Maybe it has to do with the endangered spieces Act and all the BS red tape and all the regulations and everything else that has been made off limits. Kind of hard to go mine your claim and do what you would like when they would burn you at the stake for moving some dirt and rocks around, or silt up the creek or heaven forbid cut down a tree.

 

[Goldwasher]

The purpose is to own it and extract wealth from it...the definition of wealth is the problem I guess...to have claim to an area, as your own to use it once or a hundred times...whats the difference really? The system has existed for a long time it used to be the norm that prospectors owned and traded valuable claims, the most successful prospectors found and staked claims and made their money selling to the bigger fish, I.E. Mining companies. a claim protects your interest keep or sell its up to you a right a citizen of this country who is to define what your interest is?


Factually it is a system used by a very small amount of the population and only available in a few western states....head out east and find out what property ownership and access to places for Hunting,Mining,fishing or just plain recreating is really like. Everything is private property and pay to play out here we have it very lucky and have no where near the restictions that people have east of the Rockies. A mans biggest hinderence is always himself. what should be done convince the Government that they need a bigger budget to hire more people to head out and make sure a claimholder is working his claim a certain amount of hours a week and is reporting exactly how much valuable minerals he is extracting? and is paying his taxes on that income? Or should we have thirty days to show that we can produce a certain amount of revenue from our claim? And that all of our permits and liscenses in order. Should we create a commitee that decides from a list of applicants who is the most deserving to put a shovel in the ground first? Or to take away claims from old widdows who's Husbands and sons worked a now Idle claim that she for some reason wants to keep? Or should we just create a system where whoever has the most money can just pay for the best spots? Just wondering what the proposed solution to this injustice is?

 

[MadMarshall]

I will ponder on some of your words Pvillehunter And see what I come up with..

 

[Hoser John]

Ya; all missed the point completely. The reason I have multiple claims was dredge seasons-some claims all year-some labor day to sept 1st-some till oct 15 and then back to point a again as all year dredging. NEXT-Occupancy- with all the bs time constraints of the BLM and Forest Circus contiguous claims is mandatory as when time restraint is up you simply move 100' to your other claim and the clock restarts and around and around you go till the season is over-YAHOO no'mo'seasons. FINALLY bs survey says 70-well isn't that age discrimination or tool envy as elder miners have the time/money and knowledge to mine at THEIR choice to or not to as it's THEIR RIGHTS NOT YOURS. All I read is here is I want your gold mining property. I've loaned,given freely,leased,co-owned in almost every form their is. NO BFD just seek,look,and make a deal--if not move on for gods sake-that's the difference between weekend warriors/wannabees-full time miners find a way to work without taking from others because we KNOW what it feels like to be claimjumped,robbed ,raped and pillaged with a acre a trash ,couches and garbage-------John