ASKING PERMISSION

[SORLIPM]

Newby here, this might be a stupid question, but do you have to ask at schools, tot lots, and public places, also what about the mountians, around here its mostly state owned lands. Thanks

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[FloridaBill]

Newby here, this might be a stupid question, but do you have to ask at schools, tot lots, and public places, also what about the mountians, around here its mostly state owned lands. Thanks

I am not sure where you are at but in Florida for schools you need permission

810.097 Trespass upon grounds or facilities of a school; penalties; arrest.--

(1) Any person who:

(a) Does not have legitimate business on the campus or any other authorization, license, or invitation to enter or remain upon school property; or

(b) Is a student currently under suspension or expulsion;

and who enters or remains upon the campus or any other facility owned by any such school commits a trespass upon the grounds of a school facility and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) Any person who enters or remains upon the campus or other facility of a school after the principal of such school, or his or her designee, has directed such person to leave such campus or facility or not to enter upon the campus or facility, commits a trespass upon the grounds of a school facility and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) The chief administrative officer of a school, or any employee thereof designated by the chief administrative officer to maintain order on such campus or facility, who has probable cause to believe that a person is trespassing upon school grounds in violation of this section may take such person into custody and detain him or her in a reasonable manner for a reasonable length of time pending arrival of a law enforcement officer. Such taking into custody and detention by an authorized person does not render that person criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention. If a trespasser is taken into custody, a law enforcement officer shall be called to the scene immediately after the person is taken into custody.

(4) Any law enforcement officer may arrest either on or off the premises and without warrant any person the officer has probable cause for believing has committed the offense of trespass upon the grounds of a school facility. Such arrest shall not render the law enforcement officer criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.

(5) As used in this section, the term "school" means the grounds or any facility of any kindergarten, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, or secondary school, whether public or nonpublic

 

[MD Dog]

If he's got Mountains He sure as he77 aint in Fla.

 

[FloridaBill]

If he's got Mountains He sure as he77 aint in Fla.

haha good point didn't catch that

 

[MD Dog]

Truth is your damned if you do and damned if you don't. Don't ask and you risk everything from getting run off or worse arrested as well as confiscation of your MD. If you ask you may get told the easiest safest answer "NO" You decide what has less risk.

 

[windrun]

Check with the city hall first and see what is their policy rules for the metal detector on the field. Last few times, I do on the public school campus, several people were angry to me that is against the rules for metal detector on the school campus. Even in the public park, few oldest people told me that get off the field and not allow the hunter treasure with metal detector on the park.

Later, I called the city hall and they said, anywhere you want to hunt with metal detector on the public site. There is no permit need or anything. There is no rules against the hunter treasure with metal detector.

Be careful, sometime, it can be lead to misunderstand, I mean, if you ask someone who own the property, they tell you to go over there where a lot of coins are, I mean that property is not belong to them, it is belong to someone else....when you hunt on that place, other people saw you and call the police to caught you for without their permission. So, best thing to do is they write the small note paper to prove that you have a permission with the owner than talk without prove.

Richard

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If I see other people using the school yard after hours (jogging the track, shooting hoops, etc....) then I consider myself no different. And no, you don't face confiscations blah blah. If you're not being a nuisance, leaving holes, going while school is in session, etc... then you shouldn't have a problem. Like, if you were flying a kite, and someone took issue with it, would you expect to get hauled to jail? Or would they merely say scram? (and then no harm done). But if you are skittish, then, as MD dog says, you're durned if you ask, and durned if you don't. Because the minute you ask, you only caste aspursions on yourself and your hobby, as if, something were inherently wrong with it, that you had to ask, to begin with! And then of course, images of geeks with shovels come to their mind, and what do you think their easy answer is? But if you just go, odds are, no one cares or notices.

Now if the entire school yard is off-limits for anyone and any purpose, then that's a different story. Here in CA, they're fenced in (d/t lawsuits back in the 1970s), but there's usually an open turnstyle gate, or whatever where people go in anyhow, after hours.

As for other public places, it would depend on where you mean. My practice is just to stay clear of obvious historical monument type places. I don't ask for run-of-the-mill public parks, for the same reasons above.

 

[MD Dog]

My reference to being hawled of to jail Tom was for here in N.Y. There are though more and more states adopting such laws and they are not always that readily available to be looked up. As in N.Y. they're hidden within the states education laws which BTW Place them on a Felony standard dependant on the value of damages done as determined by the state archie. Also be aware that here in N.Y. there's no differentiation between private or public land. In other words even if your in your own back yard the law says anything dug up that is older than fifty years old, belongs to the state. I also would challenge anyone to try diggin in any school yards around here as they have already seen this activity before for many many years and thanks to the abuses of a few even without signs prohibiting it, you will be arrested and your MD confiscated. Not because of your MDing but because of the destruction of state property. I know because when I first got started in this hobby I like so many other newbies headed straight away to my local school yard to learn and test the machine. I was promptly placed in cuffs and hauled to our local police station, and had I not been good friends with the chief of our local P.D. I would have gone straight to the county lock up.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

MD dog, can you please link me to any source of NY law, that says that if you find something over 50 yrs. old IN YOUR OWN YARD, that it "belongs to the state". Or even if you found something 50 yrs. old on public land (parks, schools, etc..) that it belongs to the state. I believe what you're misinterpretting is that if you found it in an "archaeological site", THEN this may apply. The question is, is all NY land (public or private) an "archaeological site"? I believe you will find that, by the context of law, there are both NON-archaeological sites, and "archaeological" ("scheduled", as they say in England) sites located on public land. Not "ALL" land is an archaeological site.

Yes, some purists archies might try to say this "don't excavate" stuff reaches too "all" public land, but what they are mis-interpretting is that .... Yes, this ARPA type stuff might, on a state-by-state level be passed down to other levels of public land (county, city, and perhaps, as you say, even private), but go back to the context and ask yourself what prohibitions are being passed down the line? It's messing with archaeological sites!

Link me to what you're talking about. I suspect you're just going by what some purist archie is claiming, not what the law actually says. But I am open to reading it, if you have something to the contrary.

 

[MD Dog]

Here you go Tom,
http://nyarchaeology.org/mainpages/about/PUbliclandtreasurehuntresolution.htm
http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-towns-of-the-east.com/metal-detecting-in-New-York.html
http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services/srvpermits.html
http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services/srv233law.html
http://www.nysparks.state.ny.us/shpo/archeo/underwater.htm
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/education/index.html

Believe it or not there's more, but I lost interest right about here. As you can see these laws extend even into the underwater world. And to top it off to even begin to comply with these laws you'd have to get anywhere from 3-5 permits from the state museum, the state dept of archeology and research, the department of education, and more depending upon the environment and location.

 

[Ant]

If I see other people using the school yard after hours (jogging the track, shooting hoops, etc....) then I consider myself no different. And no, you don't face confiscations blah blah. If you're not being a nuisance, leaving holes, going while school is in session, etc... then you shouldn't have a problem. Like, if you were flying a kite, and someone took issue with it, would you expect to get hauled to jail? Or would they merely say scram? (and then no harm done). But if you are skittish, then, as MD dog says, you're durned if you ask, and durned if you don't. Because the minute you ask, you only caste aspursions on yourself and your hobby, as if, something were inherently wrong with it, that you had to ask, to begin with! And then of course, images of geeks with shovels come to their mind, and what do you think their easy answer is? But if you just go, odds are, no one cares or notices.

Now if the entire school yard is off-limits for anyone and any purpose, then that's a different story. Here in CA, they're fenced in (d/t lawsuits back in the 1970s), but there's usually an open turnstyle gate, or whatever where people go in anyhow, after hours.

As for other public places, it would depend on where you mean. My practice is just to stay clear of obvious historical monument type places. I don't ask for run-of-the-mill public parks, for the same reasons above.

I follow these rules too, .

 

[Ant]

Here you go Tom,
http://nyarchaeology.org/mainpages/about/PUbliclandtreasurehuntresolution.htm
http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-towns-of-the-east.com/metal-detecting-in-New-York.html
http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services/srvpermits.html
http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services/srv233law.html
http://www.nysparks.state.ny.us/shpo/archeo/underwater.htm
http://law.onecle.com/new-york/education/index.html

Believe it or not there's more, but I lost interest right about here. As you can see these laws extend even into the underwater world. And to top it off to even begin to comply with these laws you'd have to get anywhere from 3-5 permits from the state museum, the state dept of archeology and research, the department of education, and more depending upon the environment and location.

. All those links talk about oblivious archeologically historic treasures, not modern day coins and jewelry, or metal detecting for them at parks and playgrounds. Almost all states have the same laws.

 

[MD Dog]

. All those links talk about oblivious archeologically historic treasures, not modern day coins and jewelry, or metal detecting for them at parks and playgrounds. Almost all states have the same laws.

Maybe you missed the part where they say anything older than fifty(50) years ISan artifact which means anything prior to 1958. BTW who has a detector that can tell them the age of a coin or piece of jewelery before they dig it up ? Yes it's true that these laws are either not well known by police departments or they choose not to enforce them or for whatever reason. But I garauntee you they'll be all over you like stink on a dead hog if you dig up anything of value that they find out about. A family right down the street from me dug up a mastadon tusk right in there back yard. Boy what a circus that turned into.

 

[Ant]

. All those links talk about oblivious archeologically historic treasures, not modern day coins and jewelry, or metal detecting for them at parks and playgrounds. Almost all states have the same laws.

Maybe you missed the part where they say anything older than fifty(50) years ISan artifact which means anything prior to 1958. BTW who has a detector that can tell them the age of a coin or piece of jewelery before they dig it up ? Yes it's true that these laws are either not well known by police departments or they choose not to enforce them or for whatever reason. But I garauntee you they'll be all over you like stink on a dead hog if you dig up anything of value that they find out about. A family right down the street from me dug up a mastadon tusk right in there back yard. Boy what a circus that turned into.

I saw that, and that's the same 50 year law we have in California for State Property. If I find an item older than 50 years old on state property I turn it in or put it back. I only keep coins under 50 years old when hunting in areas with laws like that. And I'm fully aware of the 1906 Antiquates act that states 100 years for Federal land. We all need to know these laws, and we need to keep in mind the intent of the law, as well as the letter of the law. And we all need to stay clear of Historical sites.

So it’s okay to hunt for items under 50 years old, right?

 

[MD Dog]

Yes you can hunt for things under fifty years old but even then In this state it can be a point of contention. The law Here states that any thing you find worth I believe it says $50.00 or more must be turned into the police, who can then determine if it has been reported lost and they keep for a undefined amt. of time untill they are satisfied that no one else will be filling a lost claim. Then they also decide if you get it or if it goes into the state coffers for resale at auction, or even in some cases they keep it for use in undercover ops etc... So it boils down to whatever you dig up make sure you know the age and value then either follow the laws which you should know, or be prepared to answer the consequences. Believe me when I say the Liberal Intellectual elitists have got this state sewn up against us and will probably use it as a model to advance their causes to other states. If you think this is a conspiracy theory go back and read that first link and see who it's written by. They are organized and at war, we aren't either thing organized nor at war.

 

[Ant]

Yes you can hunt for things under fifty years old but even then In this state it can be a point of contention. The law Here states that any thing you find worth I believe it says $50.00 or more must be turned into the police, who can then determine if it has been reported lost and they keep for a undefined amt. of time untill they are satisfied that no one else will be filling a lost claim. Then they also decide if you get it or if it goes into the state coffers for resale at auction, or even in some cases they keep it for use in undercover ops etc... So it boils down to whatever you dig up make sure you know the age and value then either follow the laws which you should know, or be prepared to answer the consequences. Believe me when I say the Liberal Intellectual elitists have got this state sewn up against us and will probably use it as a model to advance their causes to other states. If you think this is a conspiracy theory go back and read that first link and see who it's written by. They are organized and at war, we aren't either thing organized nor at war.

No difference here, except that it’s $100.00 bucks for turn in to the police or powers that be, and anything under $100.00 bucks is only reportable. If everybody reported finds fewer than 100.00 bucks the police telephone lines would be swamped. I guess that's why they get so disgusted with me calling every time I find a penny. That’s a State Law, but Cities and Counties can make their own, or use the State’s, same with returning it to the finder as in your State.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

MD Dog, thankyou for taking the time to list those links. I have gone over them in detail, and here are my findings.

Link #1) Pertains to state owned land. Nothing about county, city, or private level

Link #2) Ditto,

Link #3) Ditto,

Link #4) Ditto

Link #5) Pertains to underwater stuff, so I didn't read it, as it doesn't pertain to us.

Link #6) Is nothing but the entire NY state law, where, I go to specific sections dealing with archaological stuff (50 yrs. old, etc... blah blah) and merely see the same things that were already cited in #'s 1 to 4. Those, as I said, only pertain to State owned land, not anything on county, city, or private level.

So what are we talking about? Where is your legal citation that states that if you found a 51 yr. old wheatie in your front yard, that it belongs to the state? Sorry, I lost ya bro.

I suppose that if I searched hard enough, I might find laws about CA that mimic NY. But I find that most places I detect, fortunately, don't belong to the state. And if I did detect at something state owned (beaches, demo. sites, a military fort, etc...) my math never was too good anyhow

 

[BARGuy]

SORLIPM...Strongly suggest you wear pants with at least 2 pockets when 'tecting so you can separate your finds into..."Mine" & "Theirs"!

A third pocket would be nice for those that MIGHT require grading/appraisal.

 

[MD Dog]

For those of you who think you know the law well enough in your own state then more power to ya. I'm stating what my lawyer has determined is his best interpretation of the laws here in N.Y. If you want to argue a looser interpretation for yourself when in N.Y. then feel free. Personally I think it's foolish to take part in any activity which on any given day can be interpreted by a cop, Archie, Judge or whoever as illegal, without at least getting professional advice from a lawyer. So I'll just skip the peoples advice here who say just wingit and do what you want. Just like the Odysea Marine group who even though they followed all the rules are now battling in courts all over the globe trying to hold onto their latest find. If you find something worth anything of real value the vultures will pop out of every nook and cranny. Just imagine what chance the Odysea group would have if they hadn't prepared legally. Or how about the detectorist who were splashed all over the national news just a few weeks ago. They were arrested for not turning a ring or watch or some piece of jewelery over to the police. In this state no matter whether your on municiple land or private, if you dig it and it's worth more than $50 or older than 50 years. Your choices are 1)follow the rules and lose it. or 2) keep your trap shut and immediately hide it. 3) Show it off and hope no archie gets a bur up his a$$ about you. Lotsa luck with that last one around here...

 

[midnightcaller]

What dose the FMDAC do about this type of stuff or do they just take your mone y and put on hunts?