Asking for permission

[sproatz]

Has anybody ever tried making flyers . is cold knocking better.

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[ARC]

Yes...
I have made a flyer...
For me... talk has been / worked better.

Flyer gives them the "biz" feel that seems to turn some off . IMO

P.S>. Of course my flyer could have sucked as well :P

 

[sproatz]

I get nervous when I'm cold knocking it's like asking a girl out on a first date when you're at a really really old place and you really really want to metal detect it bad

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[airscapes]

I get nervous when I'm cold knocking it's like asking a girl out on a first date when you're at a really really old place and you really really want to metal detect it bad

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The reason we get nervous is because we are asking "Can I dig stuff out of you lawn?" Which is really kind of weird to the majority of the public. Then you never know if they have seen one of those TV shows.. I know if someone came to my door and asked me if they could MD in my yard before I got into the hobby, I would have slammed the door in their face. These are the reasons I don't like knocking..

 

[Bum Luck]

After watching "King George" and that other knucklehead dance around and yell like they're in The Royal Nunsuch, I can't imagine we could ever get permission to hunt a yard again.

 

[Loco-Digger]

I find it best when you pull up when they are already outside, Chat with them for a little and then pop the question. I have cold knocked on several occasions and was given permission 50% of the time. I am not against the flyer, it's just not my style. I have thought about business cards though. Seem a little more personal than a flyer.

 

[Whiterook]

I definitely have better luck face to face. My success rate also drops if I talk to them on the phone. I've actually never been refused when I personally ask the decision maker in person. There have been times I have had other people, such as the city secretary asking the mayor of a small town, or real estate agent ask the land owner, etc... ask for me and it almost always results in being told no. But I am a sales rep by trade and maybe that helps. There is definitely an art to it. You have to sell yourself.

 

[Pointman]

I will give my advice. I was recently reviewing my "silver coin" record where I keep track of what I found and where silver coin wise. I've been doing this for close to 3 years and I think I am close to 100 listings. Anyway, considering my silver ratios against all the times and places I detect and not find any silver the list is probably around 30% of the places I have gotten permission, even when you remove the places I don't ask for permission (parks, etc.) the numbers will play out that I have asked on anywhere from 250 to 300 properties. I started thinking about the times I don't get permission which I highly doubt is more than 30 places, so I am getting authorization to "dig" at anywhere from 85-90% of the time.

Anyway here is what I do. I typically don't think about it (or you will talk yourself out) and think about every reason to want to dig a property. Things that really motivate me are corner lots on old houses and big older trees and old sidewalks. Sometimes I drive by and look property and think about it for months. Many times I get permission on a property that I would have never dreamed about getting on. A lot of times they disappoint. Essentially, stalk (check out) the property and psyche yourself out to do it. I don't do a speech, I just say the greeting for the day, introduce myself, tell them what I do and ask to detect or if I go into detail "cut a plug of grass". Never say dig. When it comes to flyers I wouldn't do it simply because it is like a sales tactic. Create business cards where you offer a service such as ring finding or something and make it a "win win" situation. Thinking that we are doing something bad and ruining folk's yards by digging is the opposite of psyching yourself out to ask.

This past year, I found a partner who is about as driven as I am, (actually more sometimes) and it gets me motivated to ask more. When I am having an "off day" he will ask and vise versa. A few times we walked on opposite sides of the street to see how many houses we got. On this one block, if I remember correctly he got permission on a house and a sidewalk and I got a new house and permission again on one I had detected before. After gaining permission on more houses than you can remember, when you get the occasional "I am not interested" when you ask, will stop phasing you. It was fun. Find someone to compete and push you. I've detected with others who are the opposite of this and they will drive on past properties when i am ready to ask or even talk about all the reason not to ask such as "their yard looks too nice". Being bold and asking and basically being driven with the hobby is one of the key things that separates a successful person from someone who isn't. Ask yourself, "Do I want to be the successful detectorist, or an average one?" and then make the decision to be one or the other.

 

[Whiterook]

Just one point:
This year I have been turned down 2 times out of maybe 20 times. One was an old schoolhouse in a small town that is now a city community center. I went to city hall to ask permission and was told that I needed to get permission from the mayor. The city secretary would ask him and call me back to tell me. The result was a no. The other was a bar (the parking lot of a honky-tonk) that was for sale. I went to the real estate agency that was selling it and the agent called the seller and asked him while I was sitting in the agents office. the answer-hell no. So my absolute number one rule about getting permission is to always talk to the decision maker myself- in person.

 

[Bum Luck]

Just one point:
This year I have been turned down 2 times out of maybe 20 times. One was an old schoolhouse in a small town that is now a city community center. I went to city hall to ask permission and was told that I needed to get permission from the mayor. The city secretary would ask him and call me back to tell me. The result was a no. The other was a bar (the parking lot of a honky-tonk) that was for sale. I went to the real estate agency that was selling it and the agent called the seller and asked him while I was sitting in the agents office. the answer-hell no. So my absolute number one rule about getting permission is to always talk to the decision maker myself- in person.

I deal with that class of people all the time = no surprise. I'm amazed the realtor even called for you; why would he? When they are selling the property, they want nothing to get in the way, and there is zip to gain to let you on the land. The mayor - easy to catch him in a bad mood; they have lots of problems. You'd have better luck with the cops.

 

[Jackalope]

My advice: Unless you volunteer to give the home owner some of your finds ... there isn't any reason to permit you or anyone to dig around their property except to be "nice". What the homeowner wants is something in return to their giving you permission to hunt. It may be just acknowledging that you and they are like-minded "nice" people, so therefore you can hunt since you are "like" me. It may be that you are viewed "beneath" them, but they condescend to show mercy on you (which strokes their ego). It may be they are bored and they are excited by your enthusiasm and what might be found (lot's of bored people out there).

The superficial things under your control may be rather minor but they can stop you cold, it is your first hurdle. Tangible things are like: your appearance reflects a lack of attention, your voice inflection hints of deceit, your eyes reveal some hypocrisy as they dart about, your posture, your hand movements, even your smell .... the homeowner will size you up in the first 20 seconds: either disliking you (you're done) or liking you (maybe you can hunt ...they still need the intangible need being met though).

When your personal negatives are high they trump any other altruistic needs in the homeowner, and you're done. I'm not sure people are aware at all times just how offensive they can appear in the eyes of other people. Just chewing gum while you're talking tell volumes ... you aren't detecting today on my lawn. Do you smell like tobacco or beer ... bye bye. Are you wearing shades and a hat at the door ... so long buddy. Are you talking too close ... well then get lost. Do you look disheveled or unclean ... please go away. Are you talking unnaturally fast ... you're a liar, off with you. Why didn't you shave and why is your hair long and greasy - are you a rebel? ... well you're not touching my lawn rebel. What's with the shovel I see in your truck ... sorry, no!

There are of course homeowners who appear to lack graciousness and appear to have zero kindness. They detest everything and everyone and enjoy being rude and offensive. You'll get nothing from them unless you are very adept at sizing up the needs in other people (ornery people have feelings too, if you connect with them at some level the wall can be brought down, but it is much more difficult). For instance, a mean bitter-snake of a man became a different person when I agreed with his assessment of liberals and other political views ... that was the key to ceasing hostilities. With some people it's more of a puzzle ... they're angry but your job is to find the puzzle piece to reveal and unlock their bitterness - after that you are their "friend" (as strong as they hated you now they equally strongly like you - these people see things black or white, you just have to find a way to flip their opinion switch - it can be done).

So, everyone gets something in the transaction at their doorstep. You get to detect, of course, and they get to validate that they are a nice person, or that they are not unloving, or unkind, or whatever negative feelings they are trying to overcome at that moment (people want to be liked - the ego need is king in most cases). It could also be that the lonely homeowner gets to talk with someone - that's their payment. You have to give something to them before any deal can be consummated (it always happens whether you realize it or not).

When the homeowner receives a benefit from the interaction you get your permission, not before. Sizing up the situation so as to give the person that unspoken intangible "thing" that they seek is the art of the deal, it is what makes the sale. You have to be aware of what gets you accepted and be seen as acceptable in their eyes (not yours). Some people are more empathetic and personable (meaning they project that intangible "thing" better) so they're the ones that get to detect that old house with a nice yard, and you don't. They have something you don't - but you could if you worked at it.

The more you knock on doors the better you become at sizing up the homeowner and adapting your presentation to the unspoken needs of the homeowner. This works well whenever you deal with people - being able to size up the other person and say the "right" thing to win them to your side takes practice (you have to be keenly aware of their tells). But it will get you that refund at the store, get you out of a ticket at the courthouse, will get you the job during the interview, win over your in-laws, and so on.

That's my opinion on knocking on doors and how to be more successful (if you are already then you may just be a natural - some people learned how to read others at an early age and are very hard to say "no" to, they've perfected the art of the deal, so to speak).

 

[RobRieman]

Good points Jackalope. That's one of the best explanations of people I have ever seen. If you can strike a bond no matter how strange it's a game changer.

 

[cudamark]

Has anybody ever tried making flyers . is cold knocking better.

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A referral from a friend or neighbor is the best way. It helps break the ice when you have common ground. As Jackalope spelled out, the secret to cold knocking is to sell yourself and get the land owner on your side. If you hunt with a woman, send her to the door. They're less threatening and have a higher rate of "Yesses". I also have a flyer and card to leave on the door when nobody is home. Some success with that but not as good as a return trip and talking in person.