Artillery button

[cgdigger]

Mine appears to be an Alberts AY 21, 1st regiment of artillery, 1 piece, 22 m, eagle standing on a cannon pointed right. The only difference is that Albert says the back is blank, whereas mine has Armitage Phila on the back. An unknown and rare variant? Any suggestions on what I can do to get rid of some of the crud on the face without, obviously, damaging the button? It's in beautiful shape except for the crud, which, unfortunately, pretty much obscures the beautiful features of the button. Any and all info as to this button generally, or to my two questions above, is most welcome.

 

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[HuntinDog]

Cool Button
Personally I would leave it the way it is.
I'm not sure, but I think there are updated printings of your book.
I don't know how new your book is.
I'm sure Cannonballguy will have some answers for you soon.

 

[Iron Patch]

Repeated 30 minute lemon juice soaks, brushing maybe every 10 minutes. Over time it will pit where there is no gilt, but you have so much it's worth it. I doubt you'll get it all off, but I think most. That is the tough crud, but it will clean it.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Only thing with lemon juice is it will turn the base metal purple, perhaps some jenolite (rust remover) applied with a cotton bud.

SS

 

[fyrffytr1]

George Armitage produced a die for artillery buttons in 1804, 1806 & 1821. The Armitage/Phila backmark is found on AY-12A&B, AY16, AY-19, AY23Av and AY26Av. This According to McGuinn & Bazelon's book. However, none of those match yours. I would think it is safe to say you have a new variation on AY-21.

 

[cgdigger]

Thanks all. I was asked to provide the recovery story as to another button I posted today, and since it's the same as this one, I'll post that story here as well. I lived in a condo in downtown Norfolk from 1994-1998. Much of the original city had been razed in the 50s and 60s, and converted into parking lots. Directly across the street from our condo were some parking lots that in 1998 were being torn up and converted into upscale apartments. I had detected the lots and found a few things, but there was lots of trash, the ground was difficult to dig, and all in all, it was kind of frustrating. One night - the night of the last episode of Seinfeld - I came home and noted that at one end of the lot they'd gone down maybe 8-12" in a strip maybe 30' x 100'. Well, my wife and I watched the show, it got to be around 9 PM, i was a little lazy and unmotivated, but I finally heaved myself up and went to check out the area where they had gone down. And am I glad I did! They had gone to a historic layer, with no modern trash at all, where every signal was an artifact. I found a big penny (1820), and 6 or 7 War of 1812(ish) buttons. I've posted most of those in the last couple of weeks, but they include this button, a Navy and a general service US button posted in this forum yesterday, a Navy and a Marine button posted yesterday in the Best Finds forum, and a Republique Francais button posted in the Best Finds forum last week. My best night of detecting ever. One last point - the only other thing I found, in addition to all this 1810-1820 stuff, was a bunch of tokens that I posted a couple weeks ago. I haven't had a good ID on those. They look modern, but how a dozen or so of the exact same tokens could be found scattered in the same area where everything else was from the same era, and not themselves be of that era, is beyond me. I've bumped that token post up one last time, and if anyone can give me a better idea of what they might be, I'd appreciate it. And thanks for reading this!

 

[Iron Patch]

Only thing with lemon juice is it will turn the base metal purple, perhaps some jenolite (rust remover) applied with a cotton bud.

SS

Maybe on tombac, not on brass. I can show you many dozens from my cases and no purple.

That said, I just read the account of where they were dug, so I should add the only issue I've ever had cleaning a dug military button was one that was down very deep from a bulldozed area. It was very different condition though, no gilt and just a single corrosion spot. I'm guessing the amount of gilt on the button in question eliminates the same kind of risk factor I had - and didn't realize, but best to keep an eye on it and proceed with caution. I would soak the edge of the other one and see where that gets you. Might take some time but I'm quite confident had I dug it I could make it a lot better.

Here's a picture to show it does work. That said your corrosion is tougher, I can usually tell just by seeing it, but as I said I think can be improved. Just try the edge of the button with repeated soaks (cleaned with soap and water in between) and see where it gets you.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Maybe on tombac, not on brass. I can show you many dozens from my cases and no purple.

That said, I just read the account of where they were dug, so I should add the only issue I've ever had cleaning a dug military button was one that was down very deep from a bulldozed area. It was very different condition though, no gilt and just a single corrosion spot. I'm guessing the amount of gilt on the button in question eliminates the same kind of risk factor I had - and didn't realize, but best to keep an eye on it and proceed with caution. I would soak the edge of the other one and see where that gets you. Might take some time but I'm quite confident had I dug it I could make it a lot better.

Here's a picture to show it does work. That said your corrosion is tougher, I can usually tell just by seeing it, but as I said I think can be improved. Just try the edge of the button with repeated soaks (cleaned with soap and water in between) and see where it gets you.

The Kings Regiment looks to have a purple backing? does that button not have a brass base?. I'm not saying lemon juice doesn't work, but I wouldn't soak a brass based button in it, I would use the cotton buds in the area of the guilding...but it to his own, if it works.

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

The Kings Regiment looks to have a purple backing? does that button not have a brass base?. I'm not saying lemon juice doesn't work, but I wouldn't soak a brass based button in it, I would use the cotton buds in the area of the guilding...but it to his own, if it works.

SS

It's black, and I'm pretty sure your cotton bud method would have fallen a little short on that one. The issue with the lemon is making the non plated surface pit, and of course turn the button from or black when the corrosion leaves. Any color issue you'd have ....purple... orange, or whatever, would be a button that had no plating remaining. But if it's covered with corrosion it's still better to soak it and have some clear detail than leave it caked with crud.

 

[smokeythecat]

Just be cautious cleaning it. One of the sponsors here, Andre's pencils is an option. It will not pit the button. I bought some to clean up a couple Roman coins I bought and it did better than oil, lemon juice and everything else under the sun I threw at it.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Just be cautious cleaning it. One of the sponsors here, Andre's pencils is an option. It will not pit the button. I bought some to clean up a couple Roman coins I bought and it did better than oil, lemon juice and everything else under the sun I threw at it.

Perhaps if you’d like to scrape all the gold off! ��