ARPA-Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979

[americanadian]

Hi everyone, I am new here, so let me introduce myself. I'm from the States, went to Canada for university and have been here for the past 10 years or so. I do most of my detecting in Canada but I do a lot of business in the States and whenever I am near a beach I find some time to have a walk. Anyway, onto ARPA...

I was in New Hampshire doing business, decided to have a walk along one of the fine (but small) beaches, it was nice out while I was there, 50 degrees in February. When I parked my car, I noticed two guys sitting in a car facing the beach, one drinking coffee, no big deal. I do a solid hour of detecting, found a couple of those new presidential dollars, a couple nickels and quarters, a Susan B. Anthony dollar, and an 1878-S Morgan Dollar. As I collected them, I put them in a small zip-lock bag. I was walking back to my car and the two gentlemen stepped out of their car. Turns out, one was an archeologist and one was a DEC agent. They asked me if I had found anything, showed me their I.D., and asked me to show them what I had found. I couldn't really lie about what I had found, considering they had just watched me for a solid hour dig in the sand and place my finds in a bag.

They said under the ARPA they were going to have to take the 1858 Morgan. I know its the law, my bad I guess. Has anyone else had any trouble with ARPA or a**hole archeologists?

 

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[ANTIQUARIAN]

Personally, I've never heard of this, but I live in Canada.

ARPA
The Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979, also referred to as ARPA, is a federal law of the United States passed in 1979 and amended in 1988. It governs the excavation of archaeological sites on federal and Indian lands in the United States, and the removal and disposition of archaeological collections from those sites

The Antiquities Act of 1906, officially An Act for the Preservation of American Antiquities, is an act passed by the United States Congress and signed into law by Theodore Roosevelt on June 8, 1906 giving the President of the United States authority to, by executive order, restrict the use of particular public land owned by the federal government. The Act has been used over a hundred times since its passage. Its use frequently creates significant controversy.

History
The Antiquities Act resulted from concerns about protecting mostly prehistoric Indian ruins and artifacts – collectively termed "antiquities" – on federal lands in the West, such as at Chaco Canyon, New Mexico. Removal of artifacts from these lands by private collectors – "pot hunters," in the language of the time – had become a serious problem by the end of the 19th century.

Intended Use
The aim is to protect all historic and prehistoric sites on United States federal lands and to prohibit excavation or destruction of these antiquities. Some areas designated as National Monuments have later been converted into National Parks, or incorporated into existing National Parks.

Actual Use
Although the intended use was for small historic sites, the first use of the Act actually protected any large geographic feature.

 

[BobinSouthVA]

Sorry dude tough story to buy it being your second post. and some arch and some DEC... New york? or DES NH just sitting around in a car in Feb. when the beaches are deserted... looking for guys finding 1800 coin's in the least likely of places...

Hold on. I'll finish my post after wiring 10,000 to my long lost uncle in Zimbabwe to get the 10 mil he has set aside for me.

 

[CrazySlasher]

If they asked for the Morgan, I would have told them to try and take it from me and walked away. The whole thing seems a bit far fetched to me though.

 

[lonelyduckhunter]

If true they would have to pry it from my hands after I made them call the police and was in cuffs.

 

[teleman 2525]

i agree sounds a bit hooky to me

 

[IAsoldier]

Man did you get slapped in the face and kicked in the butt and didnt know it. Should of walked away with all goodies in hand and never told the guy what you found. Say it was all junk and pennys and clad that usually makes not interested no more. HH out there..

 

[pistol perfect]

I WOULD HAVE LAUGHED IN THERE FACE!

 

[dfx willy]

first of all there is no such thing as a 1858 morgan! ill just stop now i feel like im wasting time. willy

 

[HCW]

first of all there is no such thing as a 1858 morgan! ill just stop now i feel like im wasting time. willy

Good point. Ignore this post.

 

[steelheadwill]

I listed a Barber as a Morgan once, simple mistake on my part,
Names/dates can be confusing sometimes, and fingers can hit the wrong keys :P
Most important is this 'Confiscation' Thing.

I agree with other posters about just walking away, they would have to pry the finds
from my cold fingers
I carry a print of NH waterways law that states:
In New Hampshire, the public has the right to boat, fish and engage in other reasonable activities in navigable waters.1)courts have held that the public's right to use such waters is not merely “limited to navigation and fishery, but includes all useful and lawful purposes.”
This includes all area up to the mean high tide line.
Wonder if I'll ever encounter these 'Men in Black'

 

[dwatson4]

The next time something like this happens, ask for their names, department they work for, their supervisors name, badge number if applicable, take a picture of them if you have a camera (always carry a camera), take a picture of the item they intend to confiscate, record the tag number on the vehicle they are in, call the police and have them present before giving anything to them and only at the officers instruction. Get his badge number and name. Ask for a report from the officer.

As public servants they have to tell you who they are and who they work for. Record everything, then contact your state senator, representative, and the governors office. Call the office they work for and make sure the item was logged into their database as to when, where, and by whom it was found. Get a case number. Record all dates and times of your attempts to contact and communications with the government. If you can get an attorney's advice on your rights and the chances of compensation or return of your find.

Bottom line is intimidation by the government should not be tolerated. Do not make threats of legal action, do not make false statements, do not attempt to be intimidating, but stand firm on your desire to maintain possession of your finds and make every attempt to make sure they followed the law. I would do my best to make sure they never forget who I was, and that John Q Public will resist their tyranny, irregardless of weather I got my find back or not. It doesn't matter if the item isn't worth the money spent to get it back, it's the principle that is worth fighting for. The win is the reward.

If you loose and don't get your find back start getting involved in your government make every attempt to have the state archeology department budget cut. Every time there is a bill or legislative process that you can inject yourself into concerning the department those guys work for be there, make sure they are given limits to their power. Make sure when they see you they recognize you and what comes with you.

Best of luck

 

[Aquila]

I think we have troll here. Second post is like this and coin doesn`t exist.

 

[Ky Ed]

Some states do have a period listed on money such as 100 200 or 300 years on items to be considered (relics or artifacts) but in the ARPA Section 12 item (b) under "Savings Provision" it states "any rock, coin, bullet and mineral" is exempt from being considered an artifact of significance by this Act Just my two cents worth! Ky Ed.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Whether or not the post is made up, it's an interesting legal question.

Ky Ed, yes, arpa specifically discludes coins, but if you read arpa clearly, it's only exempting them when they're less than a certain # of years old. A lot of us md'rs have jumped and down with glee when we hear of the "exemption", but reading closely, coins, in certain context, can still apply.

And arpa only applies to federal land, not state, county, city, or private level land. Was the beach that americanadian at in New Hampshire a "federal" beach?

But be that as it may, as long as detecting was allowed there (as apparently americanadian was ok, up till the point he showed them the 1800's coin), then ..... I guess that's what other pockets on pants are made for.

We have something similar for CA state park's system beaches (which no one cares about, and has NEVER been enforced, to my knowledge, so no one pays attention to it): you can find new stuff, but if you find something of significance to cultural heritage, you must stop, flag the location, and the alert the ranger and state archaeologist. Hmmm, but ..... doesn't it seem strange, that, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO KNOW IF YOU FOUND A COIN THAT OLD, TILL YOU DIG IT UP AND LOOK AT IT? OR, sometimes, you gotta take it home and soak it in solution, before you can even see a date. So let's say that americanadian's silver dollar had an indiscernable date, or ..... to go even further, were nothing but an unknown slug looking round-coin thing, that he'd need to soak for a week, just to reveal that it was even a silver dollar?

 

[testing123]

My guess is the author had a typo in the original post first stated it's an 1878 Morgan, which is a legit date (1858 is obviously not a Morgan Dollar date).

Secondly, I'd guess it wasn't at Hampton beach 'cause nothing of value's ever been found there (damn I hate that beach, haha).

Could it be possible it's a State Park? I ran into some park personnel who stated anything that's worth more than $5 should be turned in....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Testing, I had to chuckle when I read your lost-&-found rule of "anything over $5 value". I don't think the vast majority of md'rs, across the USA, are aware that every single state has lost & found laws (parks might have something ridiculously low, like $5 criteria). But on a state level (which applies on county and city level properties too) there is usually something akin to $250 or more value, must be turned in to the local police dept. Here's an example of CA's (but every state has something similar): http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,263589.0.html

The reasoning is simple: so that when people scoop of bundles of cash behind a brinks armored car door that swung open, they can't keep it and say "finders keepers". And also so that when you find obviously stolen property (dropped by a thief on his way out of a smash and grab store-front window robbery), you can't just claim ignorance, and tell the cop "but I found it", etc... So there is good rationale for the law. But there is nothing stopping it from applying to our rings and coins. And don't think you can assume "but this ring could have been lost years ago!!" I ran that by a lawyer, who studied the text of the CA law, and he properly replied that the law makes no distinction on when someone thinks the item was lost. And as for coins, don't think you can go by the .25c value written on that rare CC seated quarter. 'cuz if a coin collector truly just lost that in a sand box, and ........ before he could go home and fetch his own detector to retrieve it, you come along and find it. He gets wind of that, and you refuse to return it, saying "it only has a .25c value!" And so on, and so forth. I've found gold coins on the beach after storms before. How do I know if they just fell out of a bezzle and were lost the day before, or were lost 100+ yrs. ago?

So yeah, the lost-&-found laws are sort of a road we don't want to go down. It's almost as if, ....... if you really want to abide by all laws (on the technical level), you've chosen the wrong hobby.

 

[fibberjibber]

Which is why I am pursuing a degree in archaeology. If you cant beat them, just marry the boss's daughter and work the angles from the inside. or something like that my dad used to say

And when I get my PhD, I will invite everyone along to do weekend 'research' to locate new sites can I say that on here

 

[Ocaliman]

first of all there is no such thing as a 1858 morgan! ill just stop now i feel like im wasting time. willy

You may want to re-read his post.. He said it was an 1878 Morgan...

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

I would have been like, "Oh well... I'll just put it back where I found it!" Then I would have turned around and chucked it into the water.

No way I would have let two suits just waltz up and take a Morgan I had dug... Not happenin... No way...

And I think that law only covers Native American artifacts on federal lands.