Army button what era?

[MackDog]

Found this button at an old park (1907) can any one identify or age it? Thanks for any info

MackDog

 

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[fyrffytr1]

Is there a back mark on it. It is a Great Seal button and dates from 1910 to present. The backmark will help narrow the time frame down.

 

[MackDog]

Is there a back mark on it. It is a Great Seal button and dates from 1910 to present. The backmark will help narrow the time frame down.

Back is completely rusted

 

[duggap]

Most of us, excluding the civil war, seem to think that a military style button with an iron back is fashion, not military. As I learned from CBG, the kepi, or hat buttons had iron backs because they set against the leather belt on the hat. I just wasn't familiar with the great seal button being used for fashion.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

MackDog, you haven't told us your button's size. Please use a caliper to measure it, in millimeters, so we can check whether or not its size matches up with any of the Military Specification sizes of Great Seal buttons.

If your button is a small-size one, that might explain why it has only 10 clouds surrounding the star-filled globe above the eagle's head, instead of the usual 13-to-18 clouds, as shown in the button-book by Alphaeus H. Albert.

Also, you said its "back is completely rusted" -- so I have to assume you mean its back is still intact, and is covered with iron rust/dirt concretion. Is that correct? A photo of the back could be helpful.

 

[fyrffytr1]

I found one button in Albert's book that has ten clouds. It is a diplomat button but the shield is different. It is number 24 on page 298.

 

[MackDog]

MackDog, you haven't told us your button's size. Please use a caliper to measure it, in millimeters, so we can check whether or not its size matches up with any of the Military Specification sizes of Great Seal buttons.

If your button is a small-size one, that might explain why it has only 10 clouds surrounding the star-filled globe above the eagle's head, instead of the usual 13-to-18 clouds, as shown in the button-book by Alphaeus H. Albert.

Also, you said its "back is completely rusted" -- so I have to assume you mean its back is still intact, and is covered with iron rust/dirt concretion. Is that correct? A photo of the back could be helpful.

The button is a small one like for a cuff 14 mm here's pictures of the back

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

MackDog, thanks for confirming that your US Great Seal button is the small-size version. It should measure 16mm, not 14mm. If possible, please confirm that measurement.

As Duggap indicated, being the small-size with an iron/steel back means it was used on leather, because rust from the iron/steel back would make a stain on cloth. So, I believe its most likely that your button is from the leather hat-strap on a US Army "visor" cap. See the photos below, showing examples of "visored" US Army caps from the World War One and World War Two eras.

Narrowing down the time-range of your button:
"Great Seal" US Army buttons were first issued in 1902, and are still in use today. The 1902-to-1910 version did not have a raised rim, so yours is not that version. The version manufactured from approximately 1910 to 1923 had a raised rim and "black finish" (which is not black paint) on the button's brass front, as a form of camouflage. In 1923, the black-finish was discontinued. Your somewhat corroded button seems to have a few small remnants of "black finish" on it. Please confirm whether or not that's what I'm seeing, or if it is just black-ish crud on the button. If it's actually remnants of "black finish" your button, it dates from 1910-1923. Otherwise, your button is from later than 1923.

I'll include a photo showing a group of non-excavated ("non-dug") 1910-1923 Great Seal US Army buttons, showing the "black finish" on their brass front. Remember, it is not black paint, but instead is achieved by using a chemical process which blackens the brass.

One of the hat photos (below) shows a visored US Army Model-1902 cap whose maker's-label says it was manufactured in 1906, and you'll notice that the Great Seal button on its leather strap does not have a raised rim. The other photo shows a World War Two era cap, whose button has a raised rim and no "black finish."

 

[MackDog]

MackDog, thanks for confirming that your US Great Seal button is the small-size version. It should measure 16mm, not 14mm. If possible, please confirm that measurement.

As Duggap indicated, being the small-size with an iron/steel back means it was used on leather, because rust from the iron/steel back would make a stain on cloth. So, I believe its most likely that your button is from the leather hat-strap on a US Army "visor" cap. See the photos below, showing examples of "visored" US Army caps from the World War One and World War Two eras.

Narrowing down the time-range of your button:
"Great Seal" US Army buttons were first issued in 1902, and are still in use today. The 1902-to-1910 version did not have a raised rim, so yours is not that version. The version manufactured from approximately 1910 to 1923 had a raised rim and "black finish" (which is not black paint) on the button's brass front, as a form of camouflage. In 1923, the black-finish was discontinued. Your somewhat corroded button seems to have a few small remnants of "black finish" on it. Please confirm whether or not that's what I'm seeing, or if it is just black-ish crud on the button. If it's actually remnants of "black finish" your button, it dates from 1910-1923. Otherwise, your button is from later than 1923.

I'll include a photo showing a group of non-excavated ("non-dug") 1910-1923 Great Seal US Army buttons, showing the "black finish" on their brass front. Remember, it is not black paint, but instead is achieved by using a chemical process which blackens the brass.

One of the hat photos (below) shows a visored US Army Model-1902 cap whose maker's-label says it was manufactured in 1906, and you'll notice that the Great Seal button on its leather strap does not have a raised rim. The other photo shows a World War Two era cap, whose button has a raised rim and no "black finish."

Thank you